Unlock the mysteries of childbirth with the guidance of Gina, a veteran childbirth attorney, as we navigate the often complex and emotional landscape of bringing new life into the world. With over twenty years in the trenches, Gina shares her profound insights on how to prepare for the unpredictable nature of labor and delivery. This episode is a must-listen for expectant parents, as we break down the legal intricacies and medical interventions like Pitocin, and emphasize the paramount importance of informed decision-making and having a supportive delivery team at your side.
Embark on a journey through the harrowing and heartfelt stories that highlight why choosing the right medical professional and hospital can make all the difference. In our conversation, we illuminate the unsung hero of childbirth: the baby advocate. Discover the critical role of someone who can vigilantly monitor the baby's well-being during the labor process, ensuring timely interventions when necessary. Our discussion is a testament to the strength of families who have faced infant loss and a call to action for advocacy and education in the realm of childbirth.
As the seasons change and we transition back to routines, our episode stands as a beacon for those seeking to ensure a safe and informed childbirth experience. From analyzing the seasonality of labor and delivery units to unraveling the complexities of fetal monitoring, Gina's expertise provides invaluable tips and sobering considerations for any parent-to-be. So join us for a conversation that not only enlightens but also empowers, as we strive for a future where every childbirth is met with knowledge, care, and the highest chance of a joyous outcome.
Unlock the mysteries of childbirth with the guidance of Gina, a veteran childbirth attorney, as we navigate the often complex and emotional landscape of bringing new life into the world. With over twenty years in the trenches, Gina shares her profound insights on how to prepare for the unpredictable nature of labor and delivery. This episode is a must-listen for expectant parents, as we break down the legal intricacies and medical interventions like Pitocin, and emphasize the paramount importance of informed decision-making and having a supportive delivery team at your side.
Embark on a journey through the harrowing and heartfelt stories that highlight why choosing the right medical professional and hospital can make all the difference. In our conversation, we illuminate the unsung hero of childbirth: the baby advocate. Discover the critical role of someone who can vigilantly monitor the baby's well-being during the labor process, ensuring timely interventions when necessary. Our discussion is a testament to the strength of families who have faced infant loss and a call to action for advocacy and education in the realm of childbirth.
As the seasons change and we transition back to routines, our episode stands as a beacon for those seeking to ensure a safe and informed childbirth experience. From analyzing the seasonality of labor and delivery units to unraveling the complexities of fetal monitoring, Gina's expertise provides invaluable tips and sobering considerations for any parent-to-be. So join us for a conversation that not only enlightens but also empowers, as we strive for a future where every childbirth is met with knowledge, care, and the highest chance of a joyous outcome.
Welcome to the SJ Childs Show, where a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. Enjoy the show. Hi and thanks for joining the SJ Childs Show today. This is going to be a really great conversation. We've already spent time chatting away and I know we're going to have to come back to some of the great things we already have discussed. It's so great to have you here today, gina. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you for having me. I'm very excited.
Speaker 1:This is going to be a unique conversation, covering some of the topics I love. Like I told you before, I love babies and things like that. I love attorneys.
Speaker 2:I love babies, it's all in the right basket here.
Speaker 1:No, just kidding, but it's going to be just a really informative conversation. That, I think, is a topic that isn't covered enough and probably I mean, I don't know maybe you go on a lot of podcast coverage. So this will be my first time really being able to talk about it and discuss things that are so important for families, especially new parents coming into this phase of their life that really don't know what to expect, and how wonderful that we can show up and give them a little bit of guidance, a little bit of tangible experience to draw from to say, oh my gosh, somebody has gone through this. I don't have to feel like I'm alone or I'm doing this out of nowhere and really be able to understand, kind of the steps to take. So, with that, tell us a little bit about yourself, introduce yourself and what kind brought you here today.
Speaker 2:Sure. So I'm a mother, that's my most important job, the most important thing I do. I have two daughters, one's 19 and one's 15. And that becomes relevant a little bit later on. And then I also have a nine year old son who's in fourth grade. You know what. He's also relevant later on too. I shouldn't, I shouldn't.
Speaker 2:I am an attorney and I specialize in childbirth. So for those of you who don't know, during the birth of a child, if something goes wrong, whether it's a mistake, it's a complication and baby is not born healthy. And unfortunately, in some of these childbirth cases I deal with babies, they don't. They don't make it, and then, in some really sad cases, I have moms that do not make it through childbirth. But what will happen is, when that happens, the family. Then, if it's due to a mistake or complication, or they believe it is, we'll seek an attorney and that attorney will bring a lawsuit against the hospital. I'm an attorney in that case, but I'm the attorney for the hospital. I'm the attorney for the doctors, the nurses, the midwives, basically the delivery team that was responsible for delivering the baby. So I have done this for over 20 years and that, basically, is 20 years of analyzing all of these mistakes, complications, what should have been done so a baby could have been born alive? What I mean? Just all these questions that you know. As the attorney on the case, you know I'm responsible for answering and I've been answering these questions. I mean, it's taken me across the country and almost every state and every single hospital system in the United States.
Speaker 2:So my last job, my most recent one that I created based upon that experience I just explained, was author. So I am now an author and I authored a book called Appearance Guide to a Safer Childbirth. The goal of my book is to prevent these mistakes and prevent these complications from happening, because if we can prevent these guess what we have more healthy babies. So basically, instead of getting involved after a difficult delivery, I'm trying to get involved before childbirth in order to help parents have a healthy baby.
Speaker 2:And again, it all starts with the book. And then you, you know you have just said hey, I'm not really familiar with this area or whatnot, because this book was just published on summer, at the end of June. Prior to that, I mean, there's this being published, there's nothing else like this. There is no other childbirth attorney that has gone out, published a book to parents to say, hey, this is what you need to know that will help you have a healthy baby. There's, there's nothing out there like this. This is not a conventional pregnancy book and definitely not a conventional child book on childbirth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And such a different take on how to bring on a child into this world. I think it's something that people don't consider that, like I said, such an important thing to get into their minds and to get into the ideas of people especially. Maybe some of the listeners might be older listeners that can then give this information to their younger teen or, you know, younger adult and older teens to really understand that there's more than just having the baby. That happens. There are complications, there are circumstances that can occur and you are never, ever.
Speaker 1:You think you're prepared, you're prepared or you have a plan, but it's not really true. You can't prepare for some things that you don't understand, that even exist or could go wrong. So I love that you're bringing some of those things to parents and really just pre parents brains so that they can be prepared for and know what to do in the case that it does occur and how to move forward. It's really important because we really base a lot of our decisions if we do research and we're smart about making our decisions that way, in such a way that we gather information from others. It's not our own experience and we have to lean on the experiences of others. So how about? How many cases would you say you have worked on overall estimated?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately many, probably way too many to count. I mean the. I've been doing this a long time, oh geez, I met so many families and whatnot. It's just. And then, you have to remember, I specialize in childbirth too. So that's really all I do Like today. I'm still an attorney, I still have cases, and I only do baby cases. That's it. So I mean, I don't even know how to. The problem is where we're now technically on the record.
Speaker 2:So you know one podcast. I'm like I did this money and then I kind of you know that is so true.
Speaker 1:That is so true. Well, thank you for helping all of those families. This is really what I was getting to is the number of you know, the people that and the doctors and the staff that really need that support as well. And I think that a lot of times, just us as humans, we go out into the world and we just kind of think that one person is responsible for one thing or whatever. One person is responsible for everything for us or whatever. And I think it's so important that, especially as a parent, we have this understanding that service providers provide services based on the information number one that we give them. We have to be that responsible, accountable party to bring the right information, but also that there is usually a team like you are representing and helping. Is these teams and people that are making decisions together, which also must be quite difficult, in trying to help navigate those situations? What do you think, especially like when you're writing your book? What was your main goal in helping families in this preventative way? What's like one tangible step they take?
Speaker 2:Okay. So let me just tell you how I end up. So this book, by the way, is thousands of hours. I spent an incredible amount of time analyzing everything and thinking how can I prevent these mistakes, how can I save babies every single day? But how can I do this? And I'd mentioned my kids earlier. It's because I wrote the book to them. It was like they were sitting in front of me and I'm like this is what you need to know. But not only is it what you need to know, but how to prevent.
Speaker 2:So what I did in the book is chapter one. Chapter one is all of the lessons. The next I shouldn't say all there's 13 lessons that I put into chapter one and then each lesson it's like the summary of the lesson, why it's important. Each lesson is then a subsequent chapter. So then you go to that chapter, you learn a little bit more about what's important and then you learn on, okay, how to make sure this does not happen during my labor and delivery. So, and some of it kind of all like kind of meshes together.
Speaker 2:For instance, one of the most important chapters in my book is the chapter. It's chapter 11. It is the most common facts in a legal baby case and it's the reoccurring facts. And that's because, unfortunately, since early in my career, I noticed that a lot of these cases have the same facts. So, for instance, one of the biggest things that they need to know is that the most common fact in a baby case meaning almost all of the cases I work on involve a Potosin induction.
Speaker 2:So, listen, if you're getting a Potosin induction, it's time to do some research. You cannot say yes to Potosin induction and roll up to the hospital Because guess what? That's how each one of my cases started. So it's not that those days are all gone, and if you do that, you're just gonna risk. You're gonna risk getting into trouble, complications. So what I did then is chapter 14. Chapter 14 is my chapter on Potosin and basically, since my first case in February 2003, a Potosin induction I have seen the Potosin induction's gone wrong for 20-something years. So I laid it all out. This is what you need to know and then at the end you have your 14 tips on how to have a safe Potosin induction. And listen, it's not complicated stuff. So it's literally these are the problems and actually let me back up on that. Listen, my book is not scary. I feel like the subject that we're talking about you're probably like what.
Speaker 1:And I wanna say let's explain what Potosin does, so that people that don't know what it is they kind of have an idea and then, yeah, we can definitely.
Speaker 2:Sarah, you're awesome. I talk a lot of times like people know what I'm talking about, so just start raising your hand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know Potosin.
Speaker 2:So Potosin is used to induce labor. That means it is used, it is given to mom, it's given to an IV and it drips and it makes the uterus contract and that's really the uterus contracts. If you ever you've had a baby or you've been in a room with childbirth, usually you see the graft in the baby's heart rate underneath or the contractions. That's the uterus, that's the pressure from the uterus contracting. So that's what Potosin does. It makes mom contract and then the ripple effect makes the body then get ready to have baby, but it's definitely baby doesn't wanna come out and they're doing the pit. You gotta be careful. So that's Potosin. And then about 2020, it became just three years ago it became even more acceptable to use Potosin. So they have now approved Potosin. You can have an elective induction at 39 weeks for Potosin. So yeah, the last few years, potosin's doing this. So if you know anybody that's gonna get a Potosin induction, very, very important that they go through chapter 12, sorry, 14 and go through the 14 tips, because Potosin is a high alert medication. There's 12 high alert medications listed. That's it. There's 12 of them and Potosin's one of them.
Speaker 2:So, and it's a high alert medication because when it's administered wrong, or mom, baby, they have a bad reaction, someone, they have a bad reaction to it. It causes severe problems, it doesn't. So? Potosin, let me tell you Potosin, as a baby lawyer, scares me. Doctors, they're fine. I talk to them all the time. I'm like you really okay with Potosin, and they're like Potosin's fine. I'm like okay, because I see it in almost all the baby cases, and they're like Gina, it's fine. So I'm in this constant debate, so doctors think it's completely fine. So if you're telling them like, oh, it's a high alert medication, they may brush you off, like they brush me off. But here, bottom line, I see it and I deal with it in my profession, which is the aftermath of a bad birth, on a weekly basis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's unfortunate and my listeners know that I'm going to share my own personal story about this. But what happened to me, so that they can know and understand the real effects? And I was 42 weeks pregnant because I had a water birth, midwife, all of the things with my first biological child and I was taking all the natural steps and all of these things. I had no hospital plan. I hadn't even accepted that I could even end up or go to a hospital in any way. So, yeah, didn't work out that way.
Speaker 1:42 weeks of midwife said well, I'm going to have to send you up to the hospital to have your water checked and everything. Have the fluids checked? So I went up. They said well, we're going to keep you. And it was a Friday morning that I was there Friday morning I think it was maybe Friday afternoon or evening that they decided that they were going to start ptocin as well. I got the IV started and then, about maybe five or six hours into it, I started having really, really bad pains and I just wasn't sure what to do or how to cope with it. And then I felt my back was completely wet and I realized the drip had come out or the epidural had come out.
Speaker 1:And I was on the ptocin with no epidural and I was straight just on, I was just straight in contractions, completely with nothing, nothing else, and so they took that, of course, took that out. Well, I, 65 hours was my labor with that baby, for three days I was in labor with him and I finally had a C-section on that third day. But that was my interesting story that I would have been still just laying there probably had I had not had the ptocin and then the epidural failure. Yeah, that was intense, it was definitely intense. I can say that when I was pregnant with my second and the doctor said, well, you're almost at 40 weeks, we can take her like two days early, Because so we should doesn't be born on I think it was New Year's Eve or something I said, yeah, that'd be great, we'll be there at 2 o'clock, we'll take her at this time. Ok, great, it wasn't this like oh my gosh who knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:So I can definitely say that one was much easier on everyone kind of thing, because to show up at the hospital Friday morning and then all my friends don't hear from me till Monday, they were just like oh yeah crazy.
Speaker 2:All right, well, good Makes me happy.
Speaker 1:You land oh that's scary stuff, yeah, and he's healthy physically. He's autistic. I don't think that that had any play in the birthing process, but it's interesting that it's that we can. Like you said, if I would have done a little bit more research on even going to the hospital, for example, and knowing what the steps that were going to be taken were going to be, that would have been so much better for me to be informed, and I certainly wasn't at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's hard, yeah, that's hard, so great. And you know, I don't know what. You know anything with your son. I don't know anything about him, but I did include in my book. So when I was doing all my research that, like, what should I actually include in my book? I did include some information about the toast and an autism.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I haven't dissected those studies enough to have an opinion either way, but I looked at them close enough that I thought it was important to put in the book. Yeah, so just to. And again, this book too, it's about giving parents information. So I'm like, listen, and they're just short. The short paragraph they actually it's this chapter and the epidural chapter, but both of those there are studies that link those two with autism.
Speaker 2:The part that I included that I wasn't happy about was so the doctors have an association that they belong to yeah, they actually call it college, but I call association for easy words and that association told all the doctors that, hey, listen, you know, if you have a patient that's undergoing a pitocin induction, there's no reason to tell them that pitocin has been linked to autism. So they're literally instructing the doctors. The colleges are like you don't have to tell the patients this. So I'm like, ok, so I find that and I'm like, really Well, I'll tell them. Yeah, right, so again, I don't know much, but it is, you know, there are the studies. So I think I quoted one of the studies, but anyway, it is in the book that there is a link. But at least that way again, it's just a parent's you know it's. Also I want to make it a good resource that if you do pit, there are studies that say this. If you do epidural, there are studies, you know, that say this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and best have the information and be able to share it with the people that it's going to affect the most, rather than hide it and not share the information. That's just that's shady stuff there. I mean, and doctors should be. You think that that ethics code would kind of cover that a little and not that would be. Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you want to know how you know if you have a good doctor. Well, that's a pretty loaded question. Let's say, one of the ways you know you have a good doctor, a good doctor. So in medicine there's typically two schools of thought. It's almost like why I have a job too, like there's always different opinions going and I'll retain two different doctors. They'll look at the same care of a mom and one doctor will say, hey, everything was done fine. Then another doctor will say everything was done wrong. These are the same doctors practicing the same profession, giving me the exact opposite opinions. Not only that, sometimes these doctors work in the same hospital. The difference of opinions are in the medical world, especially when it comes to childbirth, huge.
Speaker 2:My point is is that a good doctor will always say to you if you ask a question, hey, can Patulso cause autism? Well, this is what your doctor should say. If you have a good doctor. There's two schools of thought on this issue. There are studies that have come out linking autism and Patulso. There are studies that have come out that said there's no link. There are two different schools of thought. If they've done their research and they know the studies both studies, not just one side of the study, not just one side of both. They could then possibly give you their professional opinion saying I have researched this extensively, I know the ins and outs, because you can have a study all day long that says something. But listen, you got to look and see. Was it on four patients?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have to look at like, and that's what I write.
Speaker 2:Because if a doctor cites a study, I'm going to be like the one with four patients. That's a great study, that's a huge part of the population, great job. The doctor. If they've studied it then can then give you their professional opinion. If they have not kind of like what I did, then I haven't studied these I can give you some resources or whatnot, but just so you know there are two schools of thought versus just following the association of the college that says there's no link. That's not scary.
Speaker 1:It's so hard to as you well know, and I'm sure the doctors that you talk to show up as an expert even and give like meaningful information that somebody still isn't going to disagree with along the line. Even though you might be an expert at that information, there's still cultural differences, there's still all sorts of individualized circumstances that come into play, especially with families of different diversities, I'm sure, and underserved communities and all the levels of complexity that add to what happened in that process. I'm sure of, like you said, how these doctors are showing up and saying, no, everything was fine. No, everything wasn't. So that is just that's a hard thing to be able to bring to the table and say, well, you make your choice. Now you're the parent, you have to make your choice right.
Speaker 2:Well, you can remember. So in childbirth and any other part of pregnancy, listen, mom is the decision maker. Okay, doctors and nurses and the delivery team are medical advisors. Literally, they cannot start an IV, they can't start a pit, they can't do a vacuum. If there's a problem, they can't just do a C-section. It doesn't work like that. Mom actually has to give consent and if there's two in the, sometimes mom may come.
Speaker 2:Now, this is in the book too. Mom may come to the hospital and they may be like hmm, maybe even in your case I don't know when you presented or exactly what was going on, but there might even be something where the doctor is like well, you're not really close to being in labor. You have the option of a C-section and then you have the option of going trying to have a vaginal birth on Potosin, potosin induction or C-section. Which one do you want to do? That is actually a very common question, I shouldn't say too, it's more common, probably in my cases, but those and now mom has to decide. Now again, doctor, nurse, resident, whoever's there on the delivery team may say based upon my professional experience, my knowledge, education and so forth, I would recommend this. But again, you're the decision maker.
Speaker 2:So having an understanding of the basics of labor and delivery and childbirth and whatnot is huge, because I can tell you and I think I just said this, but the families that are in these childbirth cases, they roll up to the hospital and they don't know anything. Actually, that is the number one lesson. So chapter one, or the 13 lessons, the number one lesson is from the family and it's you know, and I think it's the mentality. Only bad things happen to other people and they don't get ready. And when you're not ready and you can't make decisions, you are in a vulnerable state which I would not recommend on one of the most important days of your life, so you know.
Speaker 2:So what I did on that lesson, for instance, chapter two chapter two is the basics of labor and delivery, basics of childbirth that you need to know. But my basics, as you can imagine, are a little bit different than anyone else's basics. So these are my basics that I use when I'm analyzing a case, analyzing what went wrong, what should have been done. These, this is my knowledge base that I have built, that I have just accumulated over, you know, 20 years, but it's an important knowledge base because if parents know what I know and the facts that I rely on. It's gonna help them make those better decisions.
Speaker 2:So that is chapter two. It's what it's mine and you know, let's say, I'm talking to an expecting mom. Again, these are the. This is my knowledge base that I rely on. So but yeah, I don't know exactly where that answer was going, but it is chapter two.
Speaker 1:And I think it's good that you did that too, because moms want, they want answers. They're looking. What mom in pregnancy isn't out there looking for the pregnancy book? Isn't out there learning what comes next? What do I do? Like if you have not gone through it? And it's not even to say, if you haven't gone through it once, it's not gonna be completely different the second time around, because look, no, two kids are the same.
Speaker 1:So why would your pregnancies be right? But again, they go in not knowing, not being informed, not even knowing that they should be informed. So really valuable things to be able to work on and to help families really gain that understanding of how important it is to have a childbirth plan and not to just wing it at the midwife's office and decide then when you're at the hospital that you've never planned for that, because really, nature is its own force of everything, so you don't have control over that and the best we can do is be preventative. So, yeah, I think that that's fantastic. Tell us about some more chapters and some more ideas of how we can better inform the people in our lives to find this book and have it be a part of their plan.
Speaker 2:Right, which I'm really impressed with the whole plan thing, because I believe that is chapter six is half a plan, so you're already even helping with the lessons I love it.
Speaker 2:But actually one of the other really important lessons, and this is huge. Okay, you gotta remember I represent the delivery team. Okay, so, parents, you have to have an understanding of how your delivery team works before you go to the hospital. And then, not only that, you gotta realize and I don't think most people do until they get there, you don't know the people on your delivery team. Yeah, those are the people who are scheduled to work that day. Not only that your doctor, that's the delivery team. Is your doctor going to be at the hospital? Where's your doctor? Who is somebody from his practice going to be on call?
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot you got to know about your delivery team because they're responsible for bringing your baby safely into this world. So my book goes over. You know the roles of the people on the delivery team and you know what. What if you don't like someone on your delivery team or you're not comfortable with them? You know you want the dream team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, because you gotta remember your doctor is captain of the ship, he's running the show, but he's not at the hospital, he's doing it from somewhere else. So you have the nurse, the resident, maybe midwife, whoever you know. They're the ones at your bedside. They're the ones assessing you and then they have to communicate whatever they assessed or whatever you told them. Now they got to communicate that to the doctor and say what's the plan? Okay, and the doctor, based upon what they said, like okay, this is the plan. So you got to make sure you got a dream team, because if you don't, if you have the team with a bad apple, that's not good because they're that's, that's how, again, that's how some of these kids they start playing out someone on the team is not good.
Speaker 1:So what do we do? How do we get rid of those people? Do we request that they aren't in the room?
Speaker 2:So what you do? You have a team with a bad apple assuming it's not your own doctor. So listen, here's the deal. Keep this in mind your doctor whoever's going to come in to deliver your baby has positioned themself to drop everything to come to the hospital. So if you have somebody that you're not comfortable with, I would make a call to the doctor and if they can't figure it out over the phone, again, remember you're in labor, you're physically and mentally just trying. Okay, what do I got to do to be out? No, you doctor can deal with it. So have the doctor figure it out. Okay, yeah, and if doctor doesn't see me figuring it out or whatever, and let's say it's the nurse, okay, it's the nurse.
Speaker 2:You're not a fan of the nurse, you know, and you might like the nurse, but you're like this nurse is really new and I am an apitosis induction and I'm just not comfortable. You go to the charge nurse, say hi, can I talk to the charge nurse? Every hospital has a charge nurse. They have to have a charge nurse. Charge nurse is in. You know they will receive all the nurses. They typically know what's going on in the hospital and remember the charge nurses. They don't hire the nurses. Typically she's saying that all the same yeah, you know, but they're not. These aren't the charge nurses. Employees have a how about that, right? So sometimes if you pull a charge nurse and you're like, yeah, I'm not really a fan of my nurse, charge nurse might be like you're like, yeah, I know, you know, they may already know that this is not a great nurse, but again, you know they, the hospital is employing the nurse, the hospital is keeping the nurse, the charge nurses, just in charge. But once you get that charge nurse, you know she can do what she does best and she can help you.
Speaker 2:And there's actually there's a story in the book about that that basically there was this nurse, there was two nurses. So the mom in the case walks into the hospital and there's two nurses and one has 20 years experience and she's literally born to be a labor delivery nurse. She's amazing, she loves her job, she's the dream team. Okay, and you have the brand new nurse who has decided that she hates her job. She doesn't even want to be a labor and delivery nurse. She actually ended up leaving labor and delivery nurse nursing like soon after she started, right, because it was just like too much for her.
Speaker 2:So that night the patients that walked through that door it was luck of the draw Did they get born to be labor and delivery nurse, 20 years experience, or did they get the other one? So listen, if that patient who got the other nurse that you know with no experience and hated her job, she would have said something the born to be nurse, or even the charge, they know, they know, like they know she's a new nurse, they know she doesn't know what she's doing. So you know, if you, if you say something, then you can, they'll fix it, but you have to say something. That experienced nurse cannot stick your head, their head in that patient's room and say, hey, your nurse socks, let me know if you want a new one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, doesn't work like that. If you say something, they you can get that ball rolling and they will. They probably already know, let me just put it that way. So, and not only that, another chapter is having a baby advocate. Listen, you're not you're. You're mentally, physically, trying to focus, get baby out. Yeah, either you're a bunch of pain, which is the only time it's okay to be in pain, by the way, and if you're not on pain, you're medicated. Yeah, having a baby advocate to kind of do all of that stuff for you is huge, and I made that. Chapter seven of the book is just designating.
Speaker 2:It could be anybody, grandma grandma's me the best baby advocates, by the way. It could be hubby, if he can. You know if you got one that'll that'll talk. Or it could be your best friend, cousin, aunt, you know. So give them that job. There is at the end of that chapter it's how do you prepare your baby advocate, and but you know that would be something that that they would do. They'd be like, okay, you want new nurse, I'll do that, and then they go from there.
Speaker 1:I love that. These are really great steps to take too, because you are you said it right off the bat you know having a dream team is comes down to so many things in our lives and especially when you're giving birth, you're like biggest day of your life, you're bringing life into the world. You know, and me, my personal experience in this is that I have a. What does my husband call it? I have an over, like I'm. I have good patient syndrome that's what he calls it. My mom was a nurse. That says it all. I show up Exactly.
Speaker 1:I show up and I will complain about anything and I just push through everything. Just, I just am a good patient. Yeah, don't do that, please. Don't show up like that, like really advocate for yourself and realize that when you're not advocating for yourself and putting yourself first in this exact situation, you're also not really showing up for that baby. This is hindsight, thank you very much, but you're really not like I.
Speaker 1:Anything could have gone wrong and I might have just like gone, gone with the flow, right or something. Luckily that didn't happen. Like everything is great, but the same breath, like I still have to, even now remember if I go to the doctor, that like if I'm at a level of pain, like I've got to be able to say something, not just pretend like nothing is wrong, because I'm there, because something's wrong, it's a battle, that's, that's a mental health, but no, I think it's the way you show up as a patient really is important. So telling women like don't show up as the perfect patient, show up and you know, make sure you're advocating for yourself and your child and your family, but really where you're also coming from in, when these doctors and these other teams of people are showing up, then they want to be at their best to and they want to have their best interest be in these babies being born and I'm sure they wouldn't go into this area of work and career field if they didn't already have that desire.
Speaker 1:And maybe some people fall into it and accidentally end up or, like you said, find out they hate it and quickly get out of it. But it's so important that you are also helping these teams of people understand that they have support as well, because I can't imagine for them that it's it's easy knowing something went wrong also and the guilt or anything they must feel as individuals being on that end of a team where a case went wrong with a baby and then how to kind of how to fix that do they normally end up like? How many people do you see leaving the field after something goes wrong?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's been a few. Yeah sure, and it's the bad ones that are just that, just heartbreaking.
Speaker 2:You know, because we, once the case is filed, I got a call where are you? And then I got to meet with them. Why did you leave? And then I'm like, oh, you know, yeah, it's hard and I'll tell you when it comes to something going wrong, you know, I think the nurses have the hardest time. They show more human emotion than anyone on the delivery team by far. They're the ones that will typically, you know, they'll be the ones crying or whatever. It is hard on them, but you know you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's something that I can hopefully help fix one day, but there's not a lot for the actual delivery team, the nurses and whatnot. So I mean one was leaving for vacation and that was it, like it was an awful delivery, and she went on vacation, she did not have fun, she just like, and then that's it. And then you know they go back, they talk about it, maybe a little bit. There's no therapy for her or anything. And then with these days you can't really just reach out to mom, I mean, you know. So they really just bottle it up. And then they meet me, you know their attorney, and it's just, they just start talking and it's just like, and then you know, I go from attorney to therapist and, you know, try to get them through and whatnot.
Speaker 2:So but no, it's hard, it's hard, I'll tell you. It's hard on me. You know, I'm a wife, I'm a human it's and I have to sit, and when I sit with the families and they have to tell me about the day their baby was born, it's rough. Those are rough and emotional, emotional days and I think emotionally I suppressed a lot of that stuff. And one of the best things for me personally that's come out of this book was that for the first three months of going back and, you know, trying to relive some of these cases and these families and trying to, you know, kind of learn from them, but having to go back through everything, you know, the first three months I cried. I cried every single morning for three months, sometimes like uncontrollably, and it eventually would stop. But you know I would get better, but just you know you were getting closer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, you know was, and I was. I gave me clarity. But then you know what it did. Is it really then fueled my desire to make sure that this book is something that won't scare parents but will prevent anything like this from happening? Actually, if you go to the end of my book and you look in the acknowledgments, you know I tell the families, you know, especially if they've met me and they see me or something you know, I don't, I don't know, but in the last one I tell them. You know, basically those mornings I cried and that it fueled me and it made this book what it is today.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's, let me tell you it's hard on every single person there. And then you know the families they're just, it's just like this combination of they should have their baby and the guilt it's not just losing a child, but they ended up feeling guilty. I mean it's something that I don't wish on any parent. I mean there you have moms that carry, you know a portion carries their baby with their ashes. You know it's awful, it's, and it's like they can't, they can't move on. And then when there's siblings, sometimes the siblings have a really difficult time and because it's the first time that I think that they really experience like death, like that of a sibling. They don't want to leave their parents, they're scared. So it's just, you know, it's just, it's just the effect, the effect, the ripple effect, something going wrong. That's why, again, it's part of my desire to get involved before childbirth. So this because when this happens, it is, it's awful for every. Grandparents, friends, these lives, these, these family's lives, professionally, they're just changed forever.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, are you?
Speaker 1:making this into a college presentation and high school presentation.
Speaker 2:I should. Yes, I think that's it.
Speaker 1:Who's our best audience? I think that would be the best audiences. That excuse me, I mean people that listen to podcasts might be older or I don't know. I don't know what. The younger generation?
Speaker 2:I'm not in that generation.
Speaker 1:So I'm not sure what they're doing. They're doing lots of TikTok videos. Maybe make those.
Speaker 2:That's what they tell me. That's what they tell me Right Play on the kids playground.
Speaker 1:If you want to play with the kids these days, right, you got to play on their playground. But no, I think that it's important that you get the information to the right listeners, to the right audiences. And yeah, that might be kind of a something to think about, you know, planning into some colleges or in introducing it to their libraries or something, so that they can better inform their students. Because who doesn't want, who doesn't want better education for such a serious topic? And I'm sure if they knew that it existed. And that's where we come in is to help promote and share and support to get the people the right information they need to get. So I love that I can do this on this level of sharing with people. Yay, we kind of got through to the end. Tell us about the last few chapters in the book, because I think we're on like six or seven that we talked about last year, and so tell us how that kind of leads.
Speaker 2:How did you get to six or seven? I'm on four, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I think you moved forward a little bit.
Speaker 2:And I do love chapter four, because chapter four it doesn't matter if you're pregnant or not. Chapter four should be read, and this is where people who read my book are like Gina, you're going to have to write a book on chapter four. So chapter four is how to pick the good doctor. So you have to remember yep, I have had, because no doctors had these deliveries. Doctors, doctors, had these deliveries. There are many, many different kind of doctors and what I have had to do as part of my job is analyze these doctors, every aspect of these doctors, and then I have to go back and I'm writing everything down, like I write a written analysis on every single doctor I meet. I have to nail it, that's on the opinions Are they likable? Is a jury going to like them? How do they communicate, you know, are they articulate? I mean whatever. So I took on all of that knowledge that I kind of gained over the last 20 years and put all of my doctor expertise into chapter four. So chapter four is definitely a good chapter.
Speaker 2:It has some silly titles, not just silly titles, but like one. For instance, one of the titles is a Yoda in Pastor. So right. So I have a witness who had left a hospital system. But before she left, she worked with this doctor and the doctor's name came up and and I knew all about the doctor, which was not good. And she said, I said the doctor's name and then she was like Yoda. And I'm like are you calling the doctor Yoda because he looks like Yoda and she's like, she's like no, he does these great things for his patients, but he's, he's a wise old man. You know, we don't really see him too much, but he is the best of the best. And I'm like, okay, you are going to have to Google Yoda's name and see what comes up and I can tell you it's true, yoda is a very bad doctor, okay, but Yoda had this great reputation. So not only because that's important in the medical field, right, because if you have a good reputation, you're going to get more patients, you're going to get more referrals.
Speaker 2:Well, he has that degree great reputation. They called him Yoda, so obviously he was exposed after some time. But you know, just, there's been a lot of things filed against that doctor. He is not Yoda, he's a very bad doctor. So the point is, a good reputation does not equate to good care. There's more to a doctor analysis than a reputation. So I go through. You know the two things I would always fall back on. You know instincts are huge communication, but then yeah, there's just a lot of good information that people need to know about doctors.
Speaker 2:Just in general in that one and then the next one was hospital how to pick a good hospital for your baby. Oh good, you can remember. You know, when this comes up, there's different levels of hospitals. So if you're just at this small community hospital that doesn't really have afterbirth care and something goes wrong, your baby is not going to get the care that they need. So accidents do happen and or not, you know, complicate or just say complications do happen. And this is just in general. This is something done wrong, like a mistake or something. Yeah, this is just in general. Things do go wrong even when there's not a mistake. It's nature.
Speaker 2:So if that happens and you're at a small community hospital, you know your baby is just not not going to get that care you might want to be, you know, especially if you have a higher risk delivery, like you know, your second baby with a C section, right, yeah, both of them. So right. So if you would have chosen to try a vaginal birth after a C section, that's called a VBAC. Those are more high risk to mom. I don't think they even gave me the option. No, I guess, read about VBACs, chapter seven, and actually I put the VBAC, whole VBAC thing in there with a story so very powerful, but yeah, so you'd want a higher level hospital. And then chapter seven is your, that's your baby advocate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love that. What a smart idea. I mean I'm always advocating for advocates for autism and children and schools and things, but a baby advocate, of course literally, you are busy to be the advocate.
Speaker 2:And I'll tell you another reason that baby advocates are important. Because, listen, what is okay? Baby advocate is chapter seven. Okay. So baby advocate is chapter seven, chapter eight and nine. This is why having a baby advocates important. I'm going to back up and then I'll come full circle.
Speaker 2:So your baby is inside you, okay. This is what makes childbirth really hard to manage and why things can go wrong. They can't physically assess baby. So, mom, they can look at mom and say, oh, mom does not feel good, mom's in pain, mom can't breathe very well. They can physically look at you and assess you. They cannot do that to be for baby, okay. So the only thing that baby's life line is the umbilical cord and the placenta and even those. Who knows the condition of those again, because everything's inside mom.
Speaker 2:So the best way to determine if your baby is okay during labor, especially like you have a pitocin induction, if you want to know if your baby's okay, you look next to your bed and it's heart rate. Your baby's heart rate should be graphing. Let me tell you. I can look at a baby's heart rate and tell you immediately if baby is a rock star or if baby is struggling. Okay, because there are certain things that when a baby's a rock star, the heart rate looks a certain way. When baby's not doing well or can't handle the stress of contractions, then it does this. It does something else, yeah, okay. So contractions earlier. So contractions like your pressure and your uterus comes down and it squeezes the baby. Most parents and people don't realize when that happens, all the oxygen, or most the oxygen to baby, is being cut off. Yeah, baby's not getting any oxygen during your contraction. Think about it. One doctor explained it to me early on in my career. Imagine during a contraction you go underwater and you come up when the contraction's done. That's what baby's going through. So you can look at your baby's heart rate. So you would easily. I mean, this is the medical world. It seems like they want to keep this as a medical professionals, but it's like so simple and it's such good stuff for parents or baby advocates to know.
Speaker 2:But listen, you want to know if your baby's not doing well. So you look at a contraction. You're going to see it go up and down and then you look at your baby's heart rate and if the contractions going up and your baby's heart rate's going down because it can't handle that lack of oxygen. And then you tell babies are meant to handle contractions, they are made for contraction. This is don't don't be alarmed over. Baby stops getting oxygen when the contractions happen. They're made to handle it. However, on something maybe like a pitocin induction where they're being stimulated, that's a different story. So anyway, more importantly, doesn't matter if you're on pit or not.
Speaker 2:If you want to know if your baby's okay, you look at their heart rate. So you're a mom and labor and you know you're just trying to focus, get baby out. You know whether you're in pain, you're not. Whatever, you're not going to stare at your baby's heart rate and try to give birth Like it doesn't. It just doesn't, it's not going to work.
Speaker 2:So that's one of the most important reasons why you want a baby advocate. Yeah, I was sitting next to you if you would decide to have another one. I can stare at that baby, that graph, and I can be like baby's got a baby maybe, maybe doesn't like that. And then, when baby doesn't like that, then there's certain interventions, there's tests. It's a process when baby is not liking the contractions and that starts like a whole another course of action. So you have your baby advocate sitting there, you know? Or, like we talked about before, you don't like your nurse? Okay, you know, that's a complete headache. By the way, send the baby advocate to go do it. You know, listen, baby advocate is huge, if this ever happened, one of the most common facts in a case a very busy labor and delivery unit the staff is running hard and they're thin.
Speaker 2:They can't sit and give you the attention you need. You have that baby advocate who knows what to do. Again, chapters in a chapter seven. You have to know this. They know that they can sit and keep you and baby safe. Why everyone else is running around doing emergency C sections, doing whatever they got to do, while you're just chilling, you know, in labor in your room. So having a baby advocate is beyond, beyond important. That is your second set of eyes on baby. And then, once you designate them, hey, listen, everyone, everyone. If you have grandma there, it's like grandma's a baby advocate. You know, just get off the fancy title and it's like a new job. Yeah, you don't roll up to a new job with no training. Expect to be good. Give her chapter seven. Just photocopy it. You know what I should do? I should put it. I just put it on my website. Here you go.
Speaker 2:Just download it Well you know I did that for chapter one. Oh, hey, I'm like don't care. Yeah, you know these lessons. If you don't want to buy my book and download this and be safe you know um same thing. I should do something with some clay. We talked about that. But yeah, the baby advocate is huge because they're your second set of eyes when your delivery team can't be by your side.
Speaker 1:And that's again comes back to us as humans, realizing that, especially in these times where we have Hospital, where we're at a hospital, where they're being staffed by whoever is working at that time of day, like you said, it is so true, we can't come prepared with everybody set up who we know and have five years experience with, or whatever that's, unless you've already worked in the delivery team and you know right, you can set them up.
Speaker 2:Yeah but, um, yeah, so with that said that, you perfect, it's who's working that day. But you got to remember this is not a surgery center where everybody is scheduled at 7th and 38, 8,. No, no, these are pregnant people, baby's ready, time to calm, you know, this is why units get flooded. This is the yes, there's a huge possibility. And then in Michigan, this is what. In Michigan, there are actually months where the labor and delivery unit is more busy. The labor and delivery is more busy in May, june and July, and they say the the spur of the beginning summer months. So, whatever, nine months before that is yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Christmas exactly. Throwing inside during the winter, and they were. This is going.
Speaker 2:So you had that combination of who's working that day and babies are going to come when babies want to come. So the possibility of you rolling off to a busy labor and delivery unit they're pretty good, you don't? You don't know, until you get there.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly and better to be prepared with any kind of preparation and especially like I would even go as far as saying advanced knowledge, as you're providing people to take with them, to have a better experience and to create a healthy, safer environment. For sure, I love that. Yes, absolutely yeah. Keep going, keep on going Okay.
Speaker 2:Eight and nine are the fetal monitors and reading the baby's heart rate. Actually, there's three types of fetal monitors. You need to know which fetal monitor. You need to know the pros and cons of each field monitor because unfortunately, if the wrong field monitor is used, it's actually unfortunately one of the most common mistakes in a childbirth case the wrong field monitors being used. And when that happens, most of the time the babies pass away when there's the wrong field monitor. So I go through all of that in my book. Again, parents this is stuff you need to know and they don't mind using the wrong field monitor. And I'm like, can you at least not use the wrong field monitor during an induction? You know, can you use the most accurate field monitor during an induction, please? They're like, no, they don't, they don't listen to me, so you're going to have to. And then advocate for that baby. Yeah, so advocate for baby. And then 10. 10, I think, is my interventions. This is the version. So 11 is most common. Yeah, so 10. Okay. So you look at the monitor babies not doing well. Okay, it's not babies not doing well, see section. It doesn't work like that, it's babies not doing well.
Speaker 2:Let's run the tests and what we do to see what's going on with baby inside. The best we can Remember, they can't really assess baby, so they start all of these tests and they start these interventions. You need to know that if they start these tests and interventions and then they'll tell you the results, you need to know what they are before you walk in, because, guess what, if they're telling you about these tests and interventions and baby may not be doing well, you may have some important decisions to make. So it's important that you know about these before you go to the hospital. So, and then there's a couple of lessons from the tests and interventions that you know I gathered from the cases that I put in there. Chapter 11, learning from the legal baby cases. I'm sorry, learning, sorry. No, the 11 is the most common facts in the reoccurring issues and baby cases. Again, busy labor and delivery units, but TOSN. And then there's a couple of other things that I'm going to talk about. I'm going to talk about the other two.
Speaker 2:Another one that is very interesting that most people I've said this quite a few times are like really Water breaking. So a mistake or a complication. Something tends to go wrong after mom's water breaks. It's like well floating in amniotic fluid, everything's hunky-dory. It's the same environment that baby's been in for nine months. Great. So they, you know, either they break, the water breaks on its own and that whole interdue environment changes, okay, and that can make baby vulnerable to, you know, not doing well or something going wrong.
Speaker 2:So if a doctor so this is the whole point if a doctor is like, hi, I'd like to break your water, it's not okay. It's why Do you want to break my water? Because there's a medical reason. Because now you know that once your water is broke, you know the baby's at risk. Or I've heard of some doctors, and this is in the book Do you ask your doctor, do you want to break it for medical reason or do you want to be home for dinner? Which one I know? I went in the book and some doctors do it. What do you actually leave that out? And I think some doctors know other doctors do it. So you know I know I was walking a fine line. So then our epidurals, safe in labor.
Speaker 2:I haven't talked about this one yet, but it's in the book, in chapter one, and the reason I included the epidural. I've never talked about it. I don't know if I can talk about it, it's just it's literally in the book. Maybe I should just read it to you. But what happened is I got a case in mom had passed away but nobody knew was from the epidural no one. So it was really hard to look at the family and they, they just wanted answers and I couldn't give it to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I wrote that chapter just to make sure that that never happens again. I literally wrote that in there. So I don't think I said anything else. That I can't talk about that case, obviously. But unfortunately I did write that I wanted to get newspaper clippings and send the family a letter wearing thick gloves. So you know my fingerprints weren't on the letter. Yeah, it's not an option. I wrote it in the book. It's not an option. I'm not going to do it, yeah. But what I can do then is write this chapter yeah, just again, make sure it never happens again, absolutely, because this day no one knows, they don't know, I should say. And then under so we're almost done.
Speaker 2:C-section. This is probably the last one, chapter 13. So most baby cases end in a C-section. So there's a few different things with C-section. Whether you walk into labor and delivery and they give you two options, or they offer you a C-section in the middle of labor, for some reason. Now they may offer you a C-section, like we got to go now, okay. So if you see the hyper doctor and they're like, no, we need you to stand there freaking out. You know, most likely you're going to say yes, but if there's a doctor and they're like well, you have this option, you have this option. You can kind of sense that there the urgency is not there. But I give you things to think about in the book. So if they ever say you know, hey, you need to have a C-section, you know, I just prepare you for that, so then you can make a factor decision based upon you know what's what's going on.
Speaker 2:And then the last chapter is the Potosin, with 14 tips on how to have a safe Potosin induction. And then, oh, there's one more chapter, chapter 15, a perfect gift from God, and that's just a nice story on basically that powerful moment when you get to hold your baby for the first time. So, while childbirth may be hard, or you know, or you just got through my book and you're just you know, just know that pretty soon you're going to be holding that baby origin. I was going to say that perfect gift from God. So that's just more of a keep the end in mind as you get ready, because pretty soon you are, you know that it's going to be right there, it's going to be within your reach. So just make sure you stay strong during childbirth.
Speaker 1:And they go spy so fast. I mean, when you're growing up and time is seems so slow, then you get into this adulthood and you're like how could I have ever thought it was going by so slow?
Speaker 1:It's going by so fast all the time. Yeah, we really have to take time. To number one, you know. I hope that people that are going to have a baby will be excited to get this information and help make a better plan and have a safer childbirth, absolutely. And those who don't know like, I hope we can get the information to them. You know the what's the average age people are having children In this decade right now. Do you know that?
Speaker 2:No, I don't either.
Speaker 1:I that would. That's interesting. I would say, I mean, I feel like a lot of us were.
Speaker 2:We were older, I feel like my generation and 47. Me too, oh nice, and. But you know my niece, she's 23, 24, she has two kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and her friends have babies, like they all have babies. So in 20s, I think so, maybe older, like I said, that, older high school and college and this that might be perfect audience for this information and to getting the because who doesn't want to be prepared for it? You don't. You don't go a whole pregnancy not thinking about the birth of your child. Right, be responsible, get the book, be accountable, be get a baby advocate. I absolutely love that. I love advocates for everything and I'm now down on baby advocate, down for that for sure. I love it. I think it's just a wonderful, wonderful advice to to give to families and you know and ultimately, what you're doing and I'm sure that if you know, birthing teams could be listening to this right now would really ultimately know you're saving their butts in the future for things that could go wrong. You're not only helping these families, but you're also helping these professionals to better not be in these situations as well. So, across the board, just Bravo, brilliant job on doing that.
Speaker 2:So real quick, literally right exactly what you said. You know, before I published my book I had I had six pregnant beta readers read it. They felt, you know, they loved it. They felt very blessed that they were able to get it ahead of time. But I also had a labor and delivery nurse read it and she calls me and she's like Gina, do you know how much easier my job will be? She was like, thank you. And then she's like and how do you know all this stuff? I'm like what Much easier.
Speaker 1:This is what I do every day.
Speaker 2:But she, she was like, oh my goodness, she's like my job's gonna be so much easier because she doesn't have to.
Speaker 1:And then you know, maybe introducing it to some that they can give it to the, to the people too, to the to the patients.
Speaker 2:So that is. You know, that's other things here I'm heading up your marketing department.
Speaker 1:You're just kidding. Literally, I love it.
Speaker 2:So you know it's funny that you can help me with this one, that you can help me with this one. So I'm finding that who really, really loves my book are the grids expecting grandparents. They are all over the book. They go to me and they're like I'm just, you know, I am the baby advocate. Yep, I am prepared and you know I'm sharing this with my other grandma friends and the grandma's are like who wants the bathroom for their kids? And you know they're great, the grandma, they're loving it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's perfect. I mean they're definitely over sharing the information. So that's exactly what you need. Those grandma getting in there. No, I think that's brilliant. I love it. I'm so glad that we connected and I was just. I was so excited to have this conversation and really discover more, and it was so much more than I had anticipated and I learned so much. So, thank you so so much for being here.
Speaker 2:Aw, you're welcome and thank you for having me. I love that. I had such a great time and I loved learning about you and what you do.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I just think you are absolutely amazing, so it was just a huge privilege to be at the show.
Speaker 1:We're going to stay in touch, I hope, and let's you know we can. We can weekly coffee chat about what's happening next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, We'll talk about my marketing.
Speaker 1:I love it Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can give me all my ideas on what to do next?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure that is the one thing I'm missing. Oh, it's tricky, and I'm still on my own self-discovery path of all those things too. So it's a constant learning curve, that's for sure. Where can we go to support you now and to get the book, and to go to the website? All for good stuff.
Speaker 2:So GinaMundicom, so just my name G-I-N-A-M-U-N-D-Ycom, perfect, that is. That will have like a link to my book. My book right now is only available on Amazon, except locally. But most of your guests probably don't live in Michigan or in Clarkston Michigan.
Speaker 2:But GinaMundi, that has my information and then, like I had said in the podcast, it has the first chapter of my book there where you can download it, and then I'm going to put, after talking to you, because I just feel like it's so important, I'm going to go ahead and I'll put like the baby advocate stuff in there and then maybe even try to add to it, just that way. You know, that way you don't have to. If your baby advocates, you know, in another house or down the road or whatever, you can send them to my website and just get the stuff off there. So I'll throw that up on there. But yeah, that's just. And then my email, so it's contact Gina or whatever on the website, but it has my email gm at GinaMundicom. So my initials at GinaMundicom, email me If you have any questions, if you've read my book.
Speaker 2:I would love to hear from my readers. I mean, I spent thousands of hours on this book for you guys. So anybody that has enjoyed it, or feedback or questions, just would absolutely love to hear from you guys. It would make my day, even if it's not great, even if you're like Gina, what is this? Yeah, I'm good, just send it over. I just to hear from you guys would be great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that Absolutely, and social medias or anything. You have any pages going on.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. Marketing person.
Speaker 1:We'll give pages coming to you next.
Speaker 2:No, it's on my Twitter, my Twitter. So I have a nine-year-old. I went to my Twitter account because it is my name. I was able to get my name, but I had posted it. I posted the day he was born and then that was it. So then now I've had some book stuff up. So Twitter is GinaMundi, Anything else? Yes, I have not really. I have TikTok account. I have not released a video yet. I'm working up to that. But oh, and Twitter? I think Twitter is just GinaMundi. But you'll see, like six tweets.
Speaker 2:So it is my next thing, I know that it's important to be on these platforms to help get the word out. So I do realize the importance of that. So that's why they're there and that's kind of the. You know, we just had a really fun summer. I don't know, in Michigan we tend to go crazy. We are locked up all summer I'm sorry, all winter. Yeah, and word not winter, winter people like we're not, we don't ski or anything like that. But so you know, we're going to be more inside me, more than anybody else. But the everybody here just kind of they like to have a lot of fun in the summer, in the summer. So we had a lot of fun. So now I'm going to get on social media. I think the fun ends after Labor Day. Yeah, isn't that the?
Speaker 1:truth. Yeah, starts to life. School and real life starts back up. Folks, sorry, it's time to put your summer sandals away and get your work boots out, that's right? Well, there's so much fun talking to you today. And I just I'm so glad we got to make this connection. So thank you for your time and thank you for your generous, generous amount of work that you have put into this for for everyone and for safer babies in the future. So bless your heart.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. You know what I really appreciate that that. That means, that means more than you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, I'm so glad and I'm excited to stay in touch, for sure, oh, 100%, 100%.