Ever wondered how a simple shift in parenting approach can lead to a harmonious family life and resilient children? Kathy Bowers, a remarkable family coach from England, joins us to share her transformative journey from nursery nursing to empowering families through her innovative coaching methods. She dives into the heart of modern parenting challenges, discussing the delicate balance between nurturing independence and providing a safety net, along with the significance of self-care for parents.
Imagine children thriving on accountability, learning from their stumbles, and growing into independent young adults. That's the vision Kathy paints as she unravels the importance of allowing children to make their own mistakes and the profound lessons that come with it. We tackle the complexities of children's involvement with social media, the right screen time balance, and how these digital tools fit into the larger picture of child development. Kathy's strategies highlight the role of parents as guides, akin to a coach, cultivating confidence and autonomy in their children.
Our conversation rounds out with the art of active listening and the impact of acknowledging the small triumphs in a child's life. Kathy offers wisdom on fostering long-term healthy relationships with our kids, navigating the choppy waters of relationship breakups, and the resilience of families in the face of adversity. Reflecting on our engaging discussion, we laugh about the challenges of coordinating international calls and cherish the connection bridged by shared insights. Join us for this enlightening episode that promises to reshape your perspective on parenting and family dynamics.
Ever wondered how a simple shift in parenting approach can lead to a harmonious family life and resilient children? Kathy Bowers, a remarkable family coach from England, joins us to share her transformative journey from nursery nursing to empowering families through her innovative coaching methods. She dives into the heart of modern parenting challenges, discussing the delicate balance between nurturing independence and providing a safety net, along with the significance of self-care for parents.
Imagine children thriving on accountability, learning from their stumbles, and growing into independent young adults. That's the vision Kathy paints as she unravels the importance of allowing children to make their own mistakes and the profound lessons that come with it. We tackle the complexities of children's involvement with social media, the right screen time balance, and how these digital tools fit into the larger picture of child development. Kathy's strategies highlight the role of parents as guides, akin to a coach, cultivating confidence and autonomy in their children.
Our conversation rounds out with the art of active listening and the impact of acknowledging the small triumphs in a child's life. Kathy offers wisdom on fostering long-term healthy relationships with our kids, navigating the choppy waters of relationship breakups, and the resilience of families in the face of adversity. Reflecting on our engaging discussion, we laugh about the challenges of coordinating international calls and cherish the connection bridged by shared insights. Join us for this enlightening episode that promises to reshape your perspective on parenting and family dynamics.
Welcome to the SJ Childs Show, where a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. Enjoy the show. Hi, thanks for joining the SJ Childs Show today. I have already been having an amazing discussion with Ms Kathy Bowers, and she's joining us today from England. It's so, so great to meet you. I'm honored to have you here, and to be able to reach out across the world and have these conversations is just incredible. How are you today? Thank you for coming and give us a little introduction about yourself.
Speaker 2:Well, sarah, thank you for inviting me. It's a real honor to be on your podcast and hello to your listeners. Yeah, I'm originally well, I'm from the UK, as you can hear by my accent. I'm a parent, which I was telling you earlier, of three fully grown adults and now a grandma of two wonderful boys, one of 16 months and the other of seven years, from my two sons.
Speaker 2:I've been working with children and families for over 40 years. I started off as a nursery nurse in schools and I went to nurseries doing nanny and jobs, living nanny and jobs, agency work. So wherever there was children and families, I was involved with them. And then eventually I suddenly thought I wanted to do a bit more. So I went into social care and children services and I trained as a family support worker, which was working within the family's homes, and then a senior family support worker, and initially it was just helping parents with small things like they want to put in a routine, a bedtime routine, or they weren't sure if they were when they should start feeding the babies you know solid foods and things like that or looking at what sorts of play would help children with autism or all sorts. You know different types and that was great because it meant that these short pieces of work the families understood. They went off and I never saw them again. But then social care thought oh, this is a good group to use because there was 29 of us, let's use them to help with our families which were more entrenched. And again, that worked quite well at first because I could be with a family, depending on their needs, six months a year, three months. So that was really good and I worked all the way through and they got to know me and they felt supported by me.
Speaker 2:And then structures changed over the years and then they suddenly decided when I became a family practitioner oh, we're changing it now to just six weeks, only for families. And I went well, that's not enough for anything. That's got a problem. And these are problem families. You know they've had children removed and they're repeating the pattern and where you put me in to help them keep the family together and try and sort out the problem. But six weeks, would you tell everyone your problem in your story. No, they said, oh, or maybe an added three weeks on some of your families and I thought this isn't going to work at all.
Speaker 2:So up to that point, I was doing more mentoring and they were looking for me to give them advice, and I thought it's okay. If they agree with it, they'll do it, but if they don't agree with what I'm suggesting, they won't, so they'll remain stuck. So I qualified as a performance coach 2018. And I brought that into the mix and I said right, we're doing things differently. Now you own it. This is your family, your children, your situation, and you have to take 100% responsibility for change, to improve your situation. I'll ask you questions, I'll support you all the way through and, of course, you can ask me things, but I will not give you the solutions. You find them, and they went oh, we don't sort of like this, and I said, well, that's the way it's working, and 70%, I was happy to hear, made changes so that things improve for themselves.
Speaker 2:And I was very disillusioned, though, still, and I kept on thinking I'm sure I want to do more. Let's try and think about starting my own business, which was life change coaching, and the nice thing about that was I left 2020 and I didn't want to have problem families anymore, because I thought I've done that for years and I wanted to work with families who were established with what they were doing. They might have some issues, but they realized that they tried things and they were stuck and I thought, oh, maybe we need a little help, maybe we can speak to someone who's a coach that can help us. Look forward to it was always communication how can we communicate more, how can we improve our relationship with our children? And then looking at what boundaries were in place and what routines were in place. But the main thing was with all of them, because I do packages, which I do free exploratory session first, and we talk about, just tell me a little bit about what's going on and I tell them how I will support them.
Speaker 2:But the main thing is, when they do start working with me, we look at what is going on for them as parents first, because that's always the thing that's stopping us from doing things, from engaging, and it could be everyone's so busy working and we've got outside pressure pressure with our jobs, pressure in jobs that we don't necessarily like, and they're giving us too much work and we can't manage it and we're struggling and we take it home and we don't sleep, and that impacts on our relationships with our partners and with our children. So it's important to look at that and look at self care, because parents have to look at what self care they're actually giving themselves and what quality time they're finding each day for themselves. Because if you as an adult can't put that in for yourself and look after your own needs and whatever's causing that trouble, that stress, that anxiety, how can you do that to your children? You have to look after you and fix what's going on for you first. So that's what I'm about now really, and I love it.
Speaker 2:I love, I feel like it's my vocation. It's taken me years to get here, but I've got all the knowledge and things I've accumulated and experienced and I've always liked people. I just find the human race fascinating and everyone's got something to give. It doesn't matter where you come from. We can all learn from each other and I felt with my families I worked for in the past. They were judged of who they were and where they were.
Speaker 2:And let's face it, when we get into a mess, we don't go up thinking I want to get, I'm going to do this because I want to get into a mess. It's just, life gets you, you meet the wrong people, you get in a difficult situation and it's difficult to get out of, and so I always make sure that I listen to what the families are telling me first and offer individual coaching, because I don't have the two parents together, because they're individuals and different upbringings and different beliefs of how parenting should be. So that's the way it is, and I also do mentoring with parents and their teens, because teens want to be involved, they want to have their voice heard and have to be able to express, and that's all done online through my coaching.
Speaker 1:Wow, and it's so important that we are able to be able to access, especially for our teens, the availability to stand up for yourself, speak up your opinion about things. And I think that just recently in my own home, I've come to see the importance of letting my youngest have a little bit more independence in safe boundaries, of course, within her home, than our first daughter, and, of course, there's huge 12 year gap between the two and there's so much in education. But you know, I've come from all of that, which is fantastic, but seeing the being able to see her, you know, stand up for herself, and even the other day I won't go into the situation, but you know, we had asked her to do something and at one point she said no and gave us the reasons why. And you know, we're her parents and of course, we don't want to hear the word no and we don't want to be argued with about things. But it was also in that moment that I was like, dang girl, I am so proud of you. Yes, stick up for yourself. And it was, you know, simple enough. And the next day I said, you know, I know that conversation yesterday was awkward and we all had to be there for it. But the way you stood up for yourself, I was so proud to see you do that and she was really proud of herself when I said that and you could just see her light up and think Self-esteem, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then it's always been important to me that she had self-worth, self-esteem, self-value and you know I know I've said this on so many episodes but when she was little, you know, just like you had said earlier, like you don't have to give grandma kisses, you don't have to what I would tell her is you love yourself first, you come first. You know you don't love grandma more, you don't love dad more. Like you love you, like you're number one all the time. Then you can love everybody else after that it's okay. Other people might not agree, that's not the way they see it, but it's really what's needed for a person to have that value for themselves and that identity. So I see the power that it's had for her and I'm so proud of her for that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, she's gonna have to learn and make mistakes and sometimes that can be self. You know. You get on yourself and you feel bad for the mistakes and you feel like you've let people down and disappointed them. So I often and you know they're also to tell her, like you are allowed to make mistakes. We appreciate that you're like learning things. We want to see you make the changes from the mistakes you're making. So you know, let's talk about it what are some things that might help you, what are some things you don't wanna do again. When you verbalize them sometimes with them, it's easier for them to see that connection. And I love that you have this parenting and you do it with the whole family but also individualize it, because every parent or every individual of the family has kind of a different role that they need to be playing and oftentimes we can, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shut the other one down. If you've got one, that's more normal, then you just think I'm not gonna say anything and you might be thinking actually I don't agree with what you're saying Exactly. Yeah, but it's true with parents, because obviously we love and care about our children, we protect them, but we can be overprotective, you know, and this is where it's not healthy, because children need to. No, you trust them and you have their back and you're gonna step in if something is really gonna be a danger to them. You know, obviously, but you need to let them explore, to go out and test that water and to try things differently.
Speaker 2:I mean, what I've noticed over the years in schools in Britain is they've stopped doing things like competitive sports. And I say, why? Why can't we compete again? Oh, no, no, no, no, because they might get upset if someone wins a race and this other child comes doesn't do very well. And I said but that's life, everything is competitive in life and you just learn that you might not be good at this, but you'll learn to be good at something else. Or if it goes wrong and it flops, it doesn't work, that's fine. Learn from it, pick yourself up and do it. You might be doing some homework and you hand it in, you get a very low mark and it's all red, marked red, and you think, oh, and the teacher said, well, do this again and they should explain why you need to do it again and that's it. So as long as you explain and you're there to support, you get the children to accept. You don't always get it right first time, but that doesn't matter, or it doesn't work out first time. So what's another way I can approach this? What's another way of thinking? I go from underneath rather than round or from a top, and you learn and you use your imagination and your experiences.
Speaker 2:And adults also need to be like that, because some adults grow up from children into fear of doing or trying anything, because they felt, well, I've been told I'm no good at this when I was little. So they take this baggage on, this belief that they feel I can't manage anything, limited beliefs. And I used to talk to parents and I say, okay, you've been telling me you're not good at this and you're not good at that. Who's told you that? Why have you learned that? And they said, oh, aunts, or my parents. And I said, right, but you're now adults. So now you tell me, stop there Now, tell me what you're doing with your life now and do you think you've achieved anything? And they would say all sorts of stuff that they've achieved.
Speaker 2:And I went well, have you heard what you've told me? Yes, so do you believe? And can you see how you've done these marvelous things? Yeah, so when you think of that and you believe, listen to this belief, this old belief. Do you really believe that exists anymore? And they said no. So I said well, why are you carrying it around with you? Are you seeing these people anymore? Most of the time they say no, I haven't seen that person for years, or they're dead or they're some old relation I see, maybe once every two or three years. So I said so. Now what are you going to do? What are you going to do with this negative belief that's been on your back all the time, giving you that worry and anxiety? And they say I'm just going to throw it away, kick it like a ball as far as I can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:But we all get it. We all take on other people's things of how they see us. I mean, I used to say at school and I didn't go to a particularly good school and they used to be saying things like oh, you'll not do this, you'll not do that, and I used to think hmm, for you to tell me I can't do something that gives me the thing to say I'll prove you wrong Because I know me. And yeah, how can you tell me you think you know me, you're not me.
Speaker 1:It's so important, too, that when you have that kind of vibe about yourself, you can go up and show up in the world. And your kids also see that, be it they are children or adults, even you know, they still see that and they're able to, you know, to hopefully have something to look forward to or something to be mentored by. And what do you tell parents who you can clearly see that maybe their mindset or their idea of how to control the situation that's going on can be more harm than good?
Speaker 2:Well, we just I just have an honest conversation with them to really sort of say, put yourself in your child's eyes, your child's age group, and have someone say the things that you're saying or how you're acting to them. How would you feel, how would you feel about this situation? How would you understand it? How would you take it on? Because it's you know, and you can do the statistics as well, you know, there's proof. That, for example, is helicopter parenting.
Speaker 2:I mean, I never used to use this word, but it's just, it seems to be the big word now helicopter parenting and it's, it's just parents that want to protect, but they're overprotective to the children and therefore they're, they're guiding the children so much and they're doing things rather than allowing the children to try and do them. So it goes on like this and their children, they, they give up, they lack self confidence, they low self-esteem and it goes back. And then, all of a sudden, it's been going on. All of a sudden, the parents will say let's go on then, get on with it now, and the children will go. I don't know where to start, because you have been doing this all the time for me and they, you know, they haven't learned to try something, to get it wrong and that's okay, let's try it again. And it's really difficult. It's like lots of families who have got businesses and they think, oh, sooner or later I'm going to retire and I've built this business up and I want my children, one of my children to take over and run it. That's all very well If that particular child is interested in what you're doing it's your same sort of mindset and wants to do it.
Speaker 2:But then you might have a child who is autistic, who doesn't want to do anything like this, and it's so wrong because what you're really doing is forcing that child to continue on something that you've built. Yeah, you know, and you're not saying I see you as an individual, I see your beauty, I see your gifts, I see your strengths, I see your sensitivity and I, as a parent, are there to support you, not the other way around. You know you haven't had children to pay back and look after you and do all these things for you. That's not that you've had children because you wanted to have children, but then that means you have to support them 100% and you have to nurture them like a baby bird. So they get their little wings and they start flapping away and when they're ready, they fly. They saw, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:And it's so important too that you, you know, I remember times when we would go, you know, to the store and I'd say, okay, we'll pick things out here. You pay for it and you know, no, I can't, I can't, I'm too afraid. And then the first time it was like, nope, I'm going to do this. And now, you know, now it's fine and it's just those easy, simple steps.
Speaker 1:And even though you know, I think that and this came straight from Temple Grandin, who I'm sure you have heard of maybe in the autism world she is somebody who has was diagnosed in the 50s and, you know, was raised in that generation but one thing that she always preaches and kind of tells people is to make your kids need to learn how to do things. Like, just like you said, you can't go to the store and always do everything that's involved and then someday be like, okay, go to the store and but you've never let them bag the groceries, they've never let them scan the coupons, you've never let them, you know, pay for anything Like they don't know how to do the steps. If you're not kind of coaching them along the way and you're almost like a your kids coach, right, You're your kids coach when you're out in the world and you need to just kind of show them.
Speaker 1:I love that about my son, you know, because he has a harder time accessing the world and we've been going to the same grocery store for his whole life and luckily there are some people there who just love and support him and when I bring him in, they know that I'm going to let him do a lot of these tasks for me and they love you know, I can see them smiling in the background or something, and they know that like he's practicing life skills and they're so supportive and I'm so grateful for all of that. But it's so important that you start early and I think, like you said so, so many parents are afraid at this time, like, yes, there's a lot of scary things. The world is a scary place. It's not a safe place. However, if you don't teach your kids how to be aware when they're in the world, how to be independent, to get the things or even ask a person for help, then they're going to be lost when you just send them out on their way.
Speaker 2:I think, my children. It was quite interesting. I used to go to London a lot on the tubes and also on holiday and their airports, and I used to say, right, remember this, when my daughter said we're going to go on the journey and this is where we need to go and this is a map. So I said, so, where do we go from here, you know, from our house to? And she said, oh, I said do you know where the main station is? And she did, because obviously we've been there a few times. So I said, well, I'm going to let you take me now. This is what we're going to do. And then when we got to the, she knew about the tickets and things, because we have the cards to swipe. So I said, right, so this is where we need to get, so you can see the maps there. So we go and have a look. So I said, now you're going to take me. So she goes, but what if I get on the wrong train ago? So if we get on the wrong train, we get off and then we go get back. We did this and it was we did about. I think it was six or seven times before she got the confidence and then she was 15. So then she decided she knew she could say to her friends they wanted to get to London. Oh well, I know I can do it. So they went off. So then I used to go on holiday with her.
Speaker 2:When I came with one parent family says to go with the boys and they say to save them, we're at the airport now. So before we leave, what do we need to take to the airport? Passport, okay. What are we getting on? Oh, plane, yeah, we need tickets. I said well, okay, so just make sure they're all there. And they put them all on the table. Have we got everything we needed? You've got your suitcase and you've packed everything, so money, if you need it, travel money and things. So we packed that all up and then we went to the airport. I said, right, arrivals and departures, what do you think we need? And they were saying, oh, we need to arrive. I said, well, we're actually here at the moment. We need to get somewhere.
Speaker 2:First I went and they explained it, so they understood. And then, obviously, the monitors, and they had the name of thing. I said can you see all that? They said yeah, and you can hear what's going on. So now we have to listen to find the plane and things. And they were so pleased and thrilled with themselves. And then we got on the plane and they had to find where the seats were and it really you could see that confidence and I was like, oh, I managed it, I did that. I said you did really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've only traveled with one child, so it was just me kind of. Now that you're saying that I'm like, oh, I'd like to go and do that again so that I can kind of turn it over to her hands and let her kind of navigate. That would be really great. But and you can do that how simple is that to do in your hometown? To set up a date that you just go and let the kids decide what to do and let them kind of choose and learn from their you know, their decisions.
Speaker 2:And they're planning an activity that they want to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great idea. Oh, that's so wonderful when you have, say, you have a family that needs to help implement social media rules for their teen or something. Yes, do you. What kind of advice do you give parents for that age and things like that? What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, all the family have to get together to talk about it because, let's face it, the parents are on their phones probably just as much as their children, but they have to decide, for example, how the children how long should they stay in their homes? The children, how long should they be on their social media phones? Because there's been so much now that it impacts on their concentration, their social skills. You know, if you're on there all the time, you're not learning to vocalize and look around, socialize. I mean the number of children I've seen not when they're crossing the road they don't look Anything that some of them have got headphones on as well, so they can't even hear the traffic. But some of them, even they haven't got headphones on, are oblivious that they're actually going across the road where the cars are turning. You know it's crazy. So you've got to make sure, whatever age group they are the younger ones, I don't believe little ones who are going to sort of preschool and infant school need a phone. They don't need it because you're just taking them there and you're collecting them and they're not allowed to use the phones in the school anyway, and they're vocabulary. Well, who will they be texting? What will they be doing? You know sort of things like that, but saying that lots of parents give little children their phone in front so they could listen to a children's program or you know a TV thing or a game or whatever, and they have the television on. They have that on all the time. So it's like a babysitter and that doesn't work because your notes not working, because the children aren't paying attention, they're flitting, they're distraction, they're all over the place. So if you're going to do things like that, have a specific time in the day when you sit with your child and they watch a particular program on television you know kiddies program suitable for their age and then you turn it off. So they know certain times are for play, certain times are for going out, having breakfast and then watching this enjoyable thing, and if they're not listening or interested, then switch it off and do something else with them. And when you have the little ones, you have to then say okay, how much time will you give them for this? And as they get older, limited time and same with teenagers. They shouldn't be more than two hours on thing. You know they need their brain to be free from that. They certainly don't.
Speaker 2:I'm a great believer in don't have televisions in the bedroom or computers or laptops. Take the phones away at night, don't have them under your pillow, because first of all, it's security. You don't know what your children are getting up online if you can't see who they're talking to. So you're keeping them safe and, let's face it, you get so many perversions coming on, pretending to be a young child and they're a male in their late 40s, 50s, grooming. So you have to have it so you can check on what they're doing and you explain all this to your children and you explain the reasons why you need to. And if you're out, you know, if you're open with what you're doing, they won't mind you having a look at their phone and scrolling, because they've got nothing to hide, or looking on their thing. It's when they don't want you to see. That's when you should really think whoa, what's going on here? You know it's not good as a game with sitting around a table to have a lovely meal, all your mates round the table, whether it's breakfast, lunch, whatever, even if the mum says, oh, I don't eat breakfast, that's fine. Sit with your children still, have you a cup of coffee or tea, maybe a piece of toast? But talk to them, encourage them to eat and find out what's going on, but don't have your phones next to you on. Put them away, put them on silent so that you have quality time, because otherwise you're going to miss signals, you're going to miss learning about one another, you're going to miss the social skills of eye contact.
Speaker 2:If you're going like this and some you know it's so common when I've seen with my families, a little baby is being playing on the floor and the mum's sitting there. She'd been talking to me, but I said okay, now you need to give some attention to your child. And she's got on the phone and a little child comes up and puts a toy in the lap and the mum goes mm-hmm, fine, but doesn't do anything. And then the child will eventually come back again and whack the mum with the toy to get attention. Then the mother responds why have you done that?
Speaker 2:It's really naughty not realising this child's been trying to get your attention, for her to play, you know, for you to play with them, and so what happens then is they either don't bother coming to you and they learn to play on their own and they self-soothe and self-regulate and withdraw. And you might think to yourself oh, my child's been really good. No, the child's learnt that you don't want anything to do with them, so they're not coming. So that you're doing a lot of damage by not getting involved with your child or you get the other ones who've learnt the only time they get your attention is if they make a noise, if they hit their sibling or if they whack you. So you're creating bad behaviour for something that isn't what you should be doing.
Speaker 2:So you know, having all this idea of when you know when you should use those phones, the electronic devices, and you have that space and that time when you don't use them. It really is a good routine to have and have boundaries. Put those boundaries in If you're not doing something, if you're not listening to me, and you'll sneak that phone into your bedroom. Well, I'm sorry, I'm taking that phone away for half a day. Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the boundaries have to be put into place and I love that, like some people have suggested with the older kids' contracts that you know, then you can. They're holding their selves to their side of the bargain and you can hold them to their word that way as well. But I love what you also said about really recognising and I was even thinking this this morning. How do I say this? Hearing with your eyes or seeing with your ears, right, and really seeing or hearing when a child is trying to make a connection with you rather than trying to get attention, because for the most part they're not really trying to get attention unless they've missed that point of connection, then they're trying to get that attention and I love that you said that and that's a great reminder for people to take that opportunity to connect with that.
Speaker 2:And it's also sorry. It's also how we listen, because that's one of the things I learned with coaching active listening. And I thought what was the difference? And the coach said to me you're not listening, kathy. He said I've said something to you and I can see from your eyes that you're trying to form a question after what I've said, or you're trying to find a solution, or you might have been thinking about what you're gonna do when this interview finishes, you know. So you're not actually listening. And I said oh okay.
Speaker 2:So he said so now you've got to be attentive and the only way you can see what's been said, both vocally and also through body language, which is just important they might not be telling you. Actually, they might be saying one thing, but their body is saying something totally different. So you have to really listen and look and observe. But that means in your head it's clear. So all your hearing is what they're actually saying and you're taking in. And then, after they've stopped talking, you then check with them. You say am I right in thinking this is what you mean by what you've just told me? And they might say, no, you've got it completely wrong. Or yeah, you've got the gist of it, but only then can you really have that two way conversation that's worth anything, no.
Speaker 1:I love that you said that. I completely agree with you. I think that, well, being a parent of a nonverbal child definitely gave me the I had to do that. I had to watch with the communication, to be there to be able to communicate, and he is verbal, semi verbal now, so it's wonderful. But I also, yeah, there's a lot that you learn in that space and time and then you can take it and foster it in other relationships. Well, as you know, being able to do that.
Speaker 1:But I think that podcasting for me. I've realized that you know some people will say, oh well, I, you know, need questions or whatever. I feel so bad sometimes because I could not read off of a piece of paper and give you a question. I would just sound robotic. But it's, it's that listening that I'm able to do in our conversation that then the rest of it just flows and I know what is going to come. It just comes right, it just comes out next, and that's the beauty of active listening. I believe, and I think that the more we practice it, the easier it is to do just flawlessly and without having to think about or you know. So practice, practice, practice.
Speaker 2:And these things take time. You don't think you're going to get it in a moment. It's like driving a car, isn't it? You don't get in a car and think, oh yeah, well, you might think, you might think you could drive it. You take it in and you mess it up, especially if you've got one with gears. You know, I mean, I, when I was learning with gears, and I kept them, I could do the steering, but then if I had to do the gears, the steering went off and I was like oh, I get this coordination. Or I put my foot on the gas rather than the brake and I thought, oh, and then the gears would be in.
Speaker 1:That was tricky. No, kids are going to be these days. They don't have that, aren't they?
Speaker 2:I thought I'm never going to get this right, but then you do, and then you get your instructor saying right, could you look at the road though you just like? Could you look ahead and kick out the middle of the road or hit on your side of the road? Oh, okay, that's fine.
Speaker 1:But you know that you have to practice it. You have to practice it just like everything else, and I completely agree. And it's when your kids also see that you're listening. They know, just like you said, when you put your phones down, when you make it apparent that you, you know, want to have these conversations with them that are meaningful, or sometimes that are awkward and uncomfortable, and then, like I said earlier, maybe go back afterwards and say, wow, that was a really uncomfortable conversation and you really handled it well. And you know that's great practice for when you're going into the world and you need to tell your boss, no, I don't agree. Or you need to tell someone on a date no, you know, that's not, that's not going to happen Like those are the times where you're going to need to have these types of practices in action in the rest of your life. So the things for us all to practice definitely.
Speaker 2:All these things come with the typical relationship you're building from a very early age with your child, from a baby onwards. You know, keeping that communication going, showing them that you're always available to them, that they can come to you about anything, talk to you about anything, and you're not judgemental, you're not going to shout down to them, you're not going to slap them around, you're not going to say, well, that's rubbish what you're saying, I don't agree. You know. You don't know what you're talking about. No, don't even get that out of your mouth, zip it. You know. And same with if there's disagreements and arguments, how you can only have an argument with someone if two of you join in, so don't one of you steps out and you're the adults to step out, back off and let things cool down. And then when you come back together, don't bring that up, don't broach it, just get on with. You know what's positive. And there's going to be times when you have to step in if they're dangerous things, and you have to really immediately come in. But if you can avoid nitpicking, picking on all the negatives and focusing on what your children have done, because children do wonderful things and they do really good things every day, small things that you don't even sort of say to them.
Speaker 2:Wow, you were so good at, you know, putting your those plates in the dishwasher or whatever. You were so good at getting yourself ready today. You were quick, you know. You listened to me Thank you for listening to me so that we're now on time to go to school or go out and do whatever. But we never say that to them. Now immediately pick at something and say immediately this is no, you know, but you have to learn to praise them and to show because they want to. The more you give them, the more you praise them, the more you show that you respect them and see them really trying. They want to do it again. And we adults are the same. If you had your partner or your someone from your family always snagging you and running you down, you can't do this. You don't well, you'll feel terrible your day. You know, if you had that from the word go, your day would be hell for the rest of the day because you'll be thinking this in am I really like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a really lovely lesson to learn and you can really see the difference in a person's day to day encounters and things when you're able to give them that praise and not focus on all of the things that are unimportant. And you know, I was in a conversation with someone and I love this thing, this idea that when you really are coming, coming up with a problem with your teen or child, really think about not what's happening right then in that moment, but what kind of a relationship are you going to want to have with them in 10 years, in 20 years? What does that look like? Are you going to damage the chance of that relationship then for something ridiculous?
Speaker 1:Now, and that's really great perspective to step back and look that far and think, wow, well, in 20 years, I just want to be in their lives, I want to talk to them every day, and that's not going to happen if you are yelling at them to get up out of bed every day, if you are yelling at them in really any bad kind of communication. That's not conducive to that. Yeah, you really have to set your own intentions of what you want the relationship to look like and I think that that is a wise idea to look 10 to 20 years out, to kind of give yourself that kick in the butt to say, okay, this isn't important right now, but what is is that I remain like, supportive and loving to them.
Speaker 2:And lots of my families I've worked with the reason they weren't disciplining their children. They said I don't want my child not to like me, not to love me, so or I want to be their friend or I see them as a mini adult. No, they're children and you are the adult teaching them. But also children have been so damaged, especially if there's relationship breakup going on or lots of problems in that relationship, and the children are privy to adult kind of conversations. They hear it face to face with your couple, or they hear someone's discussed on the phone and they watch, they learn. Their sponges are just and it causes so much anxiety and worry because they hear stuff. They don't understand it, they can't necessarily vocalize what they've heard. And the same with the arguments. As I've always said, they're fine. Oh yeah, we had a row, but they were in bed asleep, sorry, walls are very thin and if you're shouting and screaming and banging on whatever's going on, your children hear that. And in some ways, if they can't see what's going on, it's even more frightening because their imagination's working overtime and they don't sleep. And then when they come downstairs and they see the two of you like nothing's happened, all hunky and dory, talking to each other, laughing Again. That's a concern because they don't understand. I've heard all this the night before now. They're all smiling and kissing and things, and I've worked a lot with women who have been in domestic abusive relationships and the first thing I want to say is it's not your fault that you're there. It's not your fault that you feel you've let your child down. You, at that particular time, when you're going through this, you're doing all you're capable of doing all you're capable of safety and managing your children. It's only when you can get out of that relationship that you can start to build and nurture yourself and your children as well, and then you can move on and no longer be the victim. But it's vital to, if you can, to talk to someone that you trust. Don't keep it in, because I was a victim of abuse and, luckily for me, I didn't think I was the only one going through it, but lots of my ladies I worked with thought they were the only ones going through this horrible relationship and being abused, or they felt ashamed so they didn't seek out help.
Speaker 2:And when I was living abroad, I was living in Ireland when I had it. I had it for five years and then in the end I was no longer afraid. I mean, he was six foot four, his feet were size 14 and his hands were massive, you know, and he'd learned to slap me with an open hand, so it didn't make any marks and things like that, and the only thing he hadn't done was kill me, done everything else to me. And I thought to myself I'm no longer afraid of you because I know what I've been treated like, but I don't want to die. And there was a little little bit there in me, a flame, thinking no, you've got to get out of this. So I did and I remember I was doing nannying job and there was a cleaner who was in her late sixties and I was telling the lady I wouldn't be coming back because I'm, I'm leaving tomorrow, I'm going to jump on a plane and go off back to England.
Speaker 2:And this lady she said you have really lifted my heart. And I said why. She said I have been in an abusive relationship all my life with my husband, from when I was 14 to my age now. The only difference now is he can't I can move quicker than him now so he can't hit me with his stick and things. And but she said, to realize that you have made that decision to get out as a young girl, because I was only 21, 22 when it started. So you've made that decision to get out and you're actually doing it. It is. It just really lifted me. She said none of my children even know how my relationship with her dad is like because he kept it all under wraps. And I said, even to this day.
Speaker 1:Incredible Well, and we have to really support each other. Whether you're a dad supporting dads, mom supporting moms, single moms supporting single moms, whatever, find that sense of community. That group, you know you, you started your support group that we were talking about earlier, all of these types of things. You know, I have a few groups on on Facebook that are fantastic and have such community within them, and it's so important that we are able to share these experiences with one another because there's so much learning and healing and helping that can be done in that process. So, yeah, oh my gosh, it's been such a fantastic conversation with you today, kathy.
Speaker 1:And where can people go to find out more about your parenting coaching and and connect with you?
Speaker 2:My website is probably the better one. It's life hyphen, change hyphen, coaching, dot co dot UK, and on there, if you scroll down, you can click and get a free 30 minute zoom exploratory session with me where you can just tell me what's going on for you and I'll tell you a little about what I do, my coaching and if coaching is right I mean sometimes it's not, but most of the time it is and it's just a nice way for us to get to know each other a little bit better.
Speaker 1:I'm very approachable. I totally agree and I just going to say I encourage anyone to just reach out to her, just have a conversation. But just you know if you're in the States.
Speaker 2:just remember I'm in the UK. That's right, they're in the big time.
Speaker 1:So you guys call in the morning because it's evening time, or vice versa.
Speaker 2:Right, we're going to figure that out, six o'clock now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my goodness. Well, I'm going to let you get to your evening. It is so nice to to talk to you today and I love their conversation and I really hope that we can stay in touch.
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, sarah. Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:We'll talk to you soon.