From the heart of Philadelphia's vibrant streets to the intimate corners of fatherhood and advocacy, Jamiel Owens guides us through a labyrinth of emotions and experiences as he champions the cause for autism awareness. In a spirited conversation that defies boundaries, Jamiel, a father turned fierce advocate, opens the gates to his life's story, detailing his multifaceted roles - from volunteer firefighter to family relations coordinator at the Center for Autism Research at CHOP. He illuminates the transformative power social media holds in stitching together a tapestry of support for parents, especially fathers, who are navigating the complex world of autism with their children.
Strap in for a deep-dive into the societal stigmas that cling to disability, and the emotional turmoil fathers endure when grasping their child's autism diagnosis. Jamiel's raw and revealing narrative shines a spotlight on the language we use and the generational divides that can either hinder or help in embracing our children's unique abilities. His voice is a clarion call for empathy, urging education and outreach as keystones in the crusade for autistic individuals' rights. It's not just about adjusting to new norms; it's about celebrating the strength and diversity that autism brings into the family fold.
Rounding off with a look at the practicalities, Jamiel champions the cause of personalized learning and the beauty of teaching independence. His personal tales merge with professional insights, providing a beacon of hope and understanding for the autism community. Jamiel invites listeners to witness the victories, acknowledge the setbacks, and join the collective action that's reshaping the future. It's more than a conversation; it's an invitation to become part of a movement that sees strength in every spectrum.
From the heart of Philadelphia's vibrant streets to the intimate corners of fatherhood and advocacy, Jamiel Owens guides us through a labyrinth of emotions and experiences as he champions the cause for autism awareness. In a spirited conversation that defies boundaries, Jamiel, a father turned fierce advocate, opens the gates to his life's story, detailing his multifaceted roles - from volunteer firefighter to family relations coordinator at the Center for Autism Research at CHOP. He illuminates the transformative power social media holds in stitching together a tapestry of support for parents, especially fathers, who are navigating the complex world of autism with their children.
Strap in for a deep-dive into the societal stigmas that cling to disability, and the emotional turmoil fathers endure when grasping their child's autism diagnosis. Jamiel's raw and revealing narrative shines a spotlight on the language we use and the generational divides that can either hinder or help in embracing our children's unique abilities. His voice is a clarion call for empathy, urging education and outreach as keystones in the crusade for autistic individuals' rights. It's not just about adjusting to new norms; it's about celebrating the strength and diversity that autism brings into the family fold.
Rounding off with a look at the practicalities, Jamiel champions the cause of personalized learning and the beauty of teaching independence. His personal tales merge with professional insights, providing a beacon of hope and understanding for the autism community. Jamiel invites listeners to witness the victories, acknowledge the setbacks, and join the collective action that's reshaping the future. It's more than a conversation; it's an invitation to become part of a movement that sees strength in every spectrum.
Welcome to the SJ Child Show, where a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. Enjoy the show. Music Hi and welcome to the SG Child Show today. Oh, this is going to be such a great conversation, I guarantee right off the bat. I already know it. Today I have Jamil Owens and we met in a well, probably a way. A lot of people meet these days right Through social media and it's so nice to be able to not only see what other people are doing across the nation, across the world, but be able to offer support and hear the support they're offering for their communities. And so, without further ado, jamil, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you. I mean going back to the point that you made like seeing each other on social media. I have to say you are truly an advocate in this space and in the world, because social media is the world, it's not just you know your local, hometown or what you're doing. I appreciate it. I want to acknowledge it and just say thank you for allowing me to be on your show. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:I am just so honored and excited for you to be here as well. And let's get started by first give us an introduction, tell us you are in Philadelphia is that right?
Speaker 1:So I say I'm in Philadelphia, but I was raised in Philadelphia. I was born in Houston, texas, raised in North Philadelphia. I now reside in Montgomery County, hatfield, which is like 45 minutes outside of Philadelphia. But I always tell people in Philadelphia Philadelphia that's where I work at I am an autism father. My son, shane is 15. He's about to be 16, next month. I can't believe it. And you know I'm really here for the fathers and I recognize that there is a seat at the table that's missing. And a lot of times people say, well, you have to make your seat at the table and because due to different life circumstances, that can be hard sometimes. So I'm here to not only advocate for them but also to to share my story of how I didn't have that seat at the table. And now I'm going to say, in a lack of better terms, I run the table. But when I run the table I make sure that everybody is sitting with me so we can all share and understand the connection that we have in hopes of bettering and most positive outcome for our loved ones who have autism, or so I do represent another population as well. We could talk about that a little bit more.
Speaker 1:But volunteer firefighter out here. I work at the Center for Autism Research at CHOP as well. I'm the family relations coordinator. I used to be a corrections officer, so I do have law enforcement under my background too. So jack of all trades. I used to do a lot of different things, but now I'm doing the CHOP thing. I have my own podcast, the Awesome Show, my own nonprofit Awesomeness Incorporated. So I keep a little busy.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh, my head's just like. I have so much to talk about. It's fantastic and, first of all, thank you for, you know, showing up, showing up as a dad, showing up, as you know, your son's advocate, showing up for yourself as other dad's advocates, and it's so important and not only that to really show that specific role, because sometimes, you know, there's a lot of single parents out there, there's a lot of families that might be grandparents, that are the guardians and things like that. But, however, you are showing up. Thank you so much for doing so and we really, you know, just want to give you gratitude and grace for that for sure. So when your when was your son diagnosed, at what age and what did that journey kind of look at like at the beginning for you?
Speaker 1:So Shane was diagnosed at the age of three and I remember this. This was like really the defining moment in my advocacy journey, because I was the one that actually started to pick up on a lot of the quirkiness that Shane was doing and I had the opportunity to relay this information to his mother. You know, my wife, his mother at that time, my wife at that time, his mother and you know I explained to her like I think something's going on with Shane, things that I can't really explain. But this is not, quote unquote, normal. So God please excuse, because I'm keeping it transparent as possible, but at that time I wasn't really educated on some of the ableism in a language that we suffer from today. So you know, some of the language that I want to express to you is because I'm living in that moment. Still, I see that moment and I reflect on that and I use that as a tool to explain the journey. So me and his mom, we both witnessed those things, those characteristics, and we decided to get him evaluated and, quite honestly, I remember I wrote an article about this. Actually, I was about to go on vacation, I was working in the prisons, I did overnight and I was literally writing the article to stay up, right before I went to vacation and sent it off, and it was about my journey, and I remember having a sense that I wanted to leave, like I had this gut feeling that it was bad news, that they were going to tell me something. And, you know, honestly, as men, we pride ourselves on that alpha male normalcy kind of mentality, saying that if we don't have children that are quote unquote normal, what's deemed normal, we don't want them, we want to start over. And that's what I suffered from, that I was just like this can't be my child, this is not reasonable. Why, do you know why this happened to me? I've already had a hard life, I don't need anything else.
Speaker 1:So, after receiving the diagnosis, it was a, it was a stab to the heart, it was a stab to the ego, my pride was hurt and, you know, unfortunately, like many of us men, we tend to distract ourselves with other things. So, you know, the choice of poison at that time for me was going out and drinking and hanging out with friends that I shouldn't have been hanging out with in order to dilute, for one, the reality in which I'm placed. In two, the blessing in which my son has bestowed upon me, because you know, god gave me him as a gift to change my life, but I couldn't see it. Three, to ask my partner you know his mother, my wife at that time, you know how are you, what do you need from me? You know how can we work together in this?
Speaker 1:And then four, to really stand up as a man and kind of check my ego and not be like a little boy and run away. So you know, unfortunately, ego and not be like a little boy and run away. So you know, unfortunately, you know I was in that, I was definitely in that, and you tried to use it and escape as a drug sort of, and it never fixed the problem, obviously because unfortunately we got divorced, which is another. We can go talk about that all day. That's another topic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're gonna talk about that all day. That's another topic. Yeah, we're going to have to have another episode Exactly.
Speaker 1:But that, that, that that hurt, it hurt, it definitely did hurt and it took me some years to get out of the stages of grief. You know, I stay stagnant at one stage of grief and that really was detrimental to my relationship with Shane but also to my relationship with the world, because I kind of shunned myself off, because I felt as though I'm embarrassed, but also to that people will stare at my son just like they stared at me and my disability, like I was mentioning earlier. So it's a twofold. I say all of that to say this is that if there is maybe a father watching listening to this, maybe there's a mother, you know, a wife, listening to this.
Speaker 1:It is a lot for a man to deal with a child. That is not deemed normal in this society because we are, we pride ourselves on leaving our legacy. So we automatically think how am I going to leave a legacy with a child with a disability? Once again, excuse me for the terminology, but with this and in fact, your legacy will continue to live on and it will thrive through them, just like it actually thrived in my life through Shane. It actually course corrected my entire life through Shane. So, yes, that's a lot to take in, but I just wanted to get my explanation out there to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's beautiful and I think that it's so much more relatable than it isn't. And I think that we, each of us, no matter what type of diagnosis it could be, for you know so many different things, but that ultimate initial fear that comes over you, that paralyzing, not in control of anything of any outcome at that moment, and it is just like it's agony. And you know, I say that with the same exact respect to the language in that, you know, at one point in my early advocacy, I had, um, my husband and I had also shared the feelings that it was like grieving and it was a really hard process. And, um, we, it wasn't until I had interviewed um, a self-advocate, who said that when his parents said that they had grieved, he was brokenhearted and he felt like it was him who had brought this upon them. And it was that in that moment that I went oh my gosh, and this is the process of learning language, this is the process of learning how we support others and hold their dignity in the same regard is by making mistakes sometimes, or even having someone, in a different perspective, share with us.
Speaker 2:Hey, that was hurtful for me, and now I suffer from having to go through the process of letting that go, and so I quickly, in my kind of practice, started saying you know, if you can help it, don't ever let your child hear you say those words.
Speaker 2:But you know, you can use words like it's overwhelming, because, boy, that's the truth and that's not demeaning to anyone and it's never, was never meant to be demeaning in in any way. But the way other people perceive language is so personal and you and I kind of in this you know seat that we're sitting at, like you said, have to be really delicate with those types of things, and so I love that you brought that up, because using you know like normal and things. I mean, how else can we describe the understanding for someone who has never been in the situation to receive information? Like where do they even? Where do they start? It's like standing in front of a wall and people are like just open the door, but it's not until you back up that you see, oh, there might be a door in front of me. You know cause you're just standing right in front of it.
Speaker 1:Exactly so you, you broke up very two good, great points that I want to touch on. The first thing is, um, when I go into the grieving stage, um, so, I'm a man of faith. I don't object my faith on anybody, but I'm a Christian and to understand the grieving part, the grieving part is because you have to die to self, and that is a true living statement, and Shane has showed me that in living proof. We all have a problem with religion, or you know our spiritual beliefs, because it's not tangible, it's not anything that we can hold. Now they have a Bible app, but still we have questions about that Right. So, to be able to be blessed with something tangible that says, yes, you must die to your, to your selfish and cold and wicked heart daily, and don't look for any you know results or any praises or anything. That's what I mean, that stage of grief, and it's hard for us because we want to hold on to the selfishness. Well, what about me? I need to do this for me. I haven't done this yet, I haven't done that. So you know, just to clarify when I say you know, I was in that grieving, I was in that stage that I didn't want to let go of what worldly aspects I needed to take care of Missing out on the spiritual hierarchy that was right in front of me that I've been blessed with. So that was that one point.
Speaker 1:The second thing, the term normal. We are basing this term on imperfect people. That actually made this term. You have to remember, nobody on this planet is perfect. So we have imperfect people telling us what is normal and we are supposed to follow these imperfect people. It's like the blind leading the blind. So when somebody says, oh well, you know what, my son is not normal, who said no-transcript to use it and compare it to a baseline of what people may think out in the world, and until they are either God forbid, you know suffered with a disability or you know if they have a loved one that actually has something along those lines, they will never truly understand what I'm talking about. They will agree with it, but they will truly never understand what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:But that's the reason why we do shows like this just to work it out right, so I just wanted to clear that up. You made two very good points and I think people need clarification Once again. We're in this time of making sure our language again imperfect. People made this dialect for us, so we're following a dialect of compassion but at a 40%, and I'm going to give it a little bit here. But when you look at some of these other terms and words, they are really hurtful. We have to acknowledge that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. I agree with that 100%. And you know, it kind of goes back to the idea that let's talk more about words and go into the idea of labels. And you know, one quote that we use frequently is a little bit of knowledge turns fear into understanding. And without that piece of knowledge, that label, that diagnosis, that conception, how else will you treat this individual? If you can't understand where they're at, where they're coming from, what supports they may need or, you know, may not need? There's no way to connect with another human person unless you are being open to understanding the wholeness that is them and then, and that goes again, um, we can.
Speaker 1:We can go on and on about this. I, I hear things all the time. I remember um, so I'm a big uh chh fan, so christian hip-hop fan. And, uh, one of the artists I listened to, andy minio. On the end of one of his songs he had this lady and she was talking about the closeness of God. But then she, on another podcast I think this was her she was talking about the concept of race and ethnicity and how this is all a construct with the government and to be able to track different populations of people all around the world.
Speaker 1:There is none of that in reality. There really isn't. It's hey, where are you from? I'm from here, oh, that's great, cool. What's your name? And then that's it. It's not black, white, native American, other. It's none of that.
Speaker 1:So I think, as a society, when we're talking about individuals who identify with ADA compliance right, who need additional supports, we need to bring that into the light too. It's not okay. Do you have autism or an intellectual disability or are you disabled? It's hey, I noticed you have a special gift. Can you tell me a little bit more about yourself and who you are? What's your name first, not that okay. This is Shane. He's an autistic, but this is Shane as a young man. Tell me more about yourself. Oh okay, I didn't know you had autism. Can you tell me a little bit more on how that may present as far as you? That's what we need to start doing, because that goes into, you know, sympathetic and this is something from the heart.
Speaker 1:But when we see someone who needs additional assistance, maybe getting on a public transportation vehicle or something you know, we'll kindly give up our seat to make sure that they have it. But do you truly know that person? You just gave up their seat because of their label. You know what you can physically see, but do you know that maybe this person runs a Fortune 500 company, or maybe this is the actual newscaster that you listen to on a radio 24-7? You don't know that because you don't identify with who the person is, only the disability. So there's a lot that we can learn about that.
Speaker 1:You know I'm I'm very adamant about ADA compliance and how it still isn't being supportive of individuals like my son, individuals like me, individuals who, who may be, you know and needed more accessibility. You know it's it's just something that looks cute and when it comes to Congress, but our jobs really following that? No, they're not. I know autistic individuals who are adults that are struggling to maintain, to make ends meet, and they are capable, just like anybody else, to do the job, but they want to pay. You want to pay these individuals teenage wages. That's not cool, and it's not just because my son is becoming into that work area. It's for all, for everybody. That's just not right.
Speaker 2:No, there's going to be, I think, a big movement of and I think it is already in place of adult accommodations and transitions, accommodations and transitions being more in the limelight in being able to showcase what their needs are and really have these employers show up with the intent of wanting these individuals as their employees, not to make them look diversified but to actually, like you said, have the individual be a part of something and have them be a part of that individual's life, and we really need to see that come across so many areas in society. What did it look like for you as far as like family support, because I think that a lot of families struggle with maybe having, you know, the older generation of grandparents that don't understand or have the idea of autism in a totally different light than what we can see its value as today, rather than disadvantages.
Speaker 1:So you know, you have to remember that autism has always been here. The term was actually coined in the 1940s Australian, you know, coined in the 1940s, australian, you know. Psychiatrist was Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger. Both worked together and they basically helped coin the term autism. So 1940s to now obviously that's a long span of time it has always been here. I think we, as autism parents or how I like to call ourselves awesome parents need to realize that the first thing we need to look for is support within our family. That's the hard conversation. That's the conversation where, if you're, you know, in your 20s, your thirties or maybe even you know, it happens in your teenagers.
Speaker 1:you know teenage years. You sit mom and dad down or mom or dad, whatever the case may be grandparents and you say, okay, um, give my son's name, for example, little Shane. Um, it has has been diagnosed with this. Um, do you guys understand what it is? And if they're like, oh no. And you go down with the medical, the clinical terminology and everything in it and you know, with the older generation, you know there's nothing wrong with my baby.
Speaker 2:He's all right, he'll just grow out of it.
Speaker 1:No, we have to get out of that mentality that hurts. That hurts a lot of children because we stall out on services, believing that our children are going to grow out of autism. Our children are not science experiments. What they are are a embrace of changing and humanity that is for the better. Nothing from Shane exudes anything that's horrible in his life. Actually, he makes me want to be a better person because of his heart, how big it is, and how much they want to help people and just be social and just be accepted by other people.
Speaker 1:But it was for me personally. I didn't have a relationship with my dad in my earlier years, up to age 23. And then he actually looked for me and came into my life. So my background is really crazy. But he accepted me and you know, when that time came for me to explain what was going on with his grandson, he accepted him. It was difficult for him because he's in that era of older conception. You know the R word, the hated R word that is still being used today, unfortunately. He had to get that out of his mindset and once again he had to learn who Shane was as his grandson. Who is he as his grandson? So it wasn't just hey, dad, you know what, shane, you know, has been diagnosed with autism. Here's go, here go the clinical explanation of it, good luck. No, it was really me feeding information into him, but it was also the power of social media. My dad actually saw how I interacted with my son and he took that as a lesson, like, ok, my son is interacting with his son, my grandson, and this is what he's saying about Shane. So he started to learn more and more about Shane through social media and then, obviously, personal connection to who he was. So my transition was very, very easy.
Speaker 1:I have to acknowledge that other people don't have the same transition. Acknowledge that other people don't have the same transition. They're faced with ignorance. They're faced with lack of education, lack of connection due to a fact of a diagnosis it doesn't, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:Your overall outcome, whatever that may be you're seeing the plan for your child down the road doesn't depend on the understanding of your family. You actually do that out of a courtesy for them, saying, hey, I would like for you to be in our world, but in order for you to be in our world, you must understand how we are now, because it's not just how my child, but how we are, because once your child is diagnosed or receives that label, you have now just inherit that label. You are a part of his or her world. So I want to introduce you into our world and how we do things, because now you're removing yourself from this world. You're doing things in a totally different light and looking at the world in the same eyes as your child too. So it was easy for me. I can't complain at all.
Speaker 1:It was great, you know. But I do want to recognize other people don't have that luxury.
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah, we didn't. We didn't, unfortunately, and for many, many years, felt kind of like an island of four in our, you know, home state with our other family members, that we couldn't attend parties with them. We couldn't do so many other things. We couldn't, you know, go to grandparents' house or get babysitters or go on dates or things that we just had to kind of realize we know what we deserve, what our value is as a family, as individuals, like we'll give it to each other. And then you find through, luckily, these types of communities that we've been building um so much support and that was a big turning point, I think, for us.
Speaker 2:So much support and that was a big turning point, I think, for us is that it had been just like years of isolation, schools telling us they couldn't help him because his academics were too high, above what they could handle communication and social skill supports and just being able to have to kind of maneuver it and make it up as I went along, basically. And so, yeah, it's definitely been something that it's almost like I've been able to create my own home programs, like we live in our own world, set on our own time limits.
Speaker 2:Um society doesn't tell us when dinner is, when we go to sleep, when you know, yes, we have to do things like this on a timeframe for others, but in our own interpersonal life we honor one another's uh biological identity and being able to if you know, if you're tired, go take a nap. Like re respect your body, like respect the body's response to what you need. Because it does look different for everyone and I think society is in in general, doesn't they still think it should be nine to five and sleep from 10 to six and it's just like? No, that's not the case.
Speaker 1:Definitely not. Definitely not.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when you then you know he went into school, did he go to school? I should ask you that. I mean, we haven't been able to have a school experience, so what did that look like for you?
Speaker 1:So first off and I say this with all due respect, but then again I say it just as it is the school system sucks Countrywide. The school system sucks. Now to the educators, the teachers. You guys are the heroes, incredible. But I want to acknowledge that you are not giving the tools in order to help our children. So we're not mad at you, we're mad at this school system, which was first started in 1854.
Speaker 1:If I have my years correct, that was the first school here, because I did a whole. I did a whole presentation. I went down to Vanderbilt University and I presented to these bunch of doctors and scientists because they were saying why can't we get people on research and retain them? Because you're doing it wrong, because you have to realize is that they're not another number or a code of digits, but they're actual people. And you have to build a relationship as healthcare organizations. You have to build a relationship that has been tarnished by a natural disaster named COVID. It wasn't anybody's fault, but the disconnect between the medical organizations and citizens has been made. We did not trust anything that was happening with this whole situation. So now the connect has to happen. That's a whole, nother topic. Let me not get off the show.
Speaker 1:But the school systems are not in line to accept our children. You know, once again they're placing all right. So you know the Constitution of the United States. There are amendments which are attachments to the Constitution because in all respect they cannot change what the Constitution says. This is the same thing that's happening to our children.
Speaker 1:They have their school system, they have everything that has been generated from the early 1800s, 1900s, whatever the case may be, and they're attaching our children who do not fall in a line of individuals who are and once again excuse the terminology mentally retarded or those who are intellectually compromised. They are very intelligent, so they fall in that gray space. So you can't place my child in a classroom of peers whose IQ are below my child's IQ and expect for him to navigate that system correctly. It's just not going to happen. So once again, excuse my language to those who may be offended. I didn't want to, but I wanted to get my point across. System sucks. The country needs to do better by it, and they have to, because the statistic shows that autism is prevalent.
Speaker 1:It's here that being said a lot of cases. We were one Philadelphia. We were very concerned about finding a school for Shane. We actually found a pre-K program that was like a neighborhood school and I called them and I was terrified and I was like, hey, you know what, we have our son, we're interested in your school, but there's one catch. And then you know, I never forget this gentleman named the owner is Bob. I don't know if he's still there, but shout out to Bob. Well, bob was like all right, talk to me, dad. And I'm like well, my son, you know he's been diagnosed with autism, so some of the supports will need to come into your daycare to help him out. He's like that's not a problem, he's like that's, that's cool with me, just let me know who they are so we can make sure we have them check, and that's cool.
Speaker 1:Not a lot of places did that back then, so I was very we, me and his mother was very thankful. We went in there. Now the other situation was finding people who actually care about your child, so those individuals who are working these positions, coming in and actually caring about the wellbeing of your child. Coming in and actually caring about the wellbeing of your child, I had to actually step in as my child's aid one time, and that was for three weeks, because the aid that we did the organization has sent out wasn't doing her job at all, was not caring, and the staff at the school the pre-K told us like she's not doing well, so we got rid of her. Unfortunately, we had to and I actually stayed in the classroom.
Speaker 1:So everybody knew me as Shane's dad, cause I was always there just in circle time. I had him on my lap, we was listening to circle time. It was the funniest thing ever. But once again I got to experience that Right. So I got to be able to experience that to be able to sympathize where I'm at currently today and know that it can be done Graduated.
Speaker 1:He was actually with his peers. He was soaking up so much knowledge and then going into the next level school, you know, elementary. We hit a roadblock and we, we explored. We hit a road bump and we, we explored I'm not going to say the organization's name out of respect for them, but we enrolled Shane into that school, thinking that it would be better for him, and it turned out that he was actually observing, absorbing a lot of the negative attributes of his peers in that specialized school. Yeah, and we're seeing it.
Speaker 1:So me and his mother at that time we were going through divorce. She moved to Delaware County outside of Philadelphia and got him into an amazing school district out there that he's been since elementary up until now and when I tell you, he has thrived. I remember one day in particular I was picking them up and we had to go back inside the building and everybody was like, hi, shane, hey, what's up Shane, what's going on? And I'm looking like all these older kids and I'm like these kids know you, and he's like, yeah, he's like they're cool, you know, they're my friends, and I was like it's like our parents blessing, like we'd love to hear that.
Speaker 1:So, you know, I, I have, I've been once again, I've been blessed and I have to give you know that to his mother, because if she never made the move and it's an unfortunate thing that mothers and families have to uproot themselves in order for a proper education for their child Um, in this case, if it wasn't for her, you know, unfortunately Shane probably wouldn't be in the best condition that he is today. So you know, he is doing very, very well and once again, I say this over and over again the system is broken, the system is not designed for our children at all and that goes into that transition. We're falling through the cracks tremendously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Does he have. What are his life skills like? Does he struggle with any skills as far as you know, home skills or community? Will he get a driver's license Like? What level is he at there?
Speaker 1:So we have talked with him being 16. Now you know we're talking about, you know working papers from school, doing some part time work, and you know a junior driver's license permit. So I talked to Shane and I talked to Shane and I've been talking to him man to man. That's what I say is, like, shane, we're going to talk man to man, even when I'm reprimanding him for something, and I'm like look at me in my eyes, eye contact, put your hands down. I'm going to respect you and have my hands down. I'm going to give an equal amount of space. I'm going to talk to you in a very low baritone voice and I'm not going to use any abusive language. I'm just going to talk to you to try to understand who you are and it has been successful for me all of these years. And you know I asked him like all right, so you know about driving, what do you? What do you think about driving? He's like you know what? I think I want to wait until at least 17. Ok, respectable, that's fine when you're ready for it. You know we have options. That's fine when you're ready for it. You know we have options. Either I can get you into a driving school or if you would like for me to help you learn. I can definitely do that and you know I said you don't have to give me an answer now, but just let me know. I said, but when you're in the car with me, just like I learned, I learned actually by watching my mom. I'd never studied the book or anything. I always watch my mom and I pass the test. Yeah, and I look at what daddy does. You know, if daddy does something wrong, call me out on it. Let me know what I did wrong. But look at exactly how I am and look at your surroundings.
Speaker 1:The social skills part we're working on. Shane is social. He's social with older adults, just like many of our children. They cling to older adults. So he likes talking to older adults or people who are interested in trains, just like him. You were working on his peers how to be social, but he is. He starts conversations, he warms up to the room, just like all of our kids neurotypical, neurodiverse, has no concept of money. All of our kids neurotypical and neurodiverse has no concept of money. I work for money.
Speaker 1:You got to work in order to get paid, but getting that because we installed in a household and parents. Don't be afraid to do this. Chores, old school methods. Hey, you do this chore. This is how much you want to get for doing this chore. You know we installed that in a household and I let them know.
Speaker 1:Like, listen, things to help benefit you, like making sure your hygiene is together. You know, cleaning up your bathroom space, that's your personal thing. That's what you should be doing. You're not going to get paid for that. But doing the dishes for the household, taking out the trash, those are things that I'll be glad to pay you for, but things that you should be doing as a young man to maintain your own space, because that's the ultimate goal for you to have your own apartment. You're not going to get paid for that. You'll get kudos. It'll look great, something that you know. I see in there that maybe you need to brush up on.
Speaker 1:As far as cleaning, I'm going to direct you on that, but you're not going to get any accolades for that. I'll direct you on that, but you're not going to get any accolades for that. You know, and parents got to keep in mind. This can be placed in an IEP and it needs to be taught unilaterally, not only just the educators, but at home too, in order for an effective system to be in place. It has you know we talk about, you know you know attraction to the opposite sex Very important. Our children are very obsessive. If they see someone they like, they're going to obsess over them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I get it, but a great analogy that I heard was it's a game of tennis. Take the ball. You serve the ball. Hey, my name is Shane. What's your name? Oh, I think you're. You're beautiful. I would love to get to know you a little bit. Oh, you know what? I'm okay. That ball never came back over to you, so will you know what that means?
Speaker 2:Game over.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, so I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:So I tell him all the time to do that. So Shane is is, is he's? He's doing well, he's doing well. Obviously, we do recognize that our children, even though they present in age as 15, their conscious may be presenting of a 13-year-old, or a year back or two years back. So I keep that in mind all the time. He's progressing, he's progressing on his speed and he's understanding more and more. And I'm there to answer those questions and kind of direct them if I see him veering off. So I can't complain about that. He's really really, really fortunate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, he definitely is fortunate. I agree. Let's talk about what kind of obviously this has all brought you to the passion that you have in now doing community work, and let's talk a little bit about that and the work you do in the community now.
Speaker 1:So it's crazy, because I always wanted to protect people. So from earlier on, I did armed security in Philadelphia for, like, bars, clubs, venues, I always did that. Then, you know, I went into corrections. Then, coming up here, I became a volunteer firefighter, which I still am, and it has never satisfied me as much as what I'm doing right now. I'm protecting people. I'm, you know, helping people, which is that as what I'm doing right now. I'm protecting people. I'm helping people, which is that's what I want.
Speaker 1:But as far as my true calling, this is my true calling. So my title is Family Relations Coordinator and basically what I am is outreach. So I go out in the communities. I let them know about what we do at the Center for Autism Research at CHOP, our research opportunities, but also too, which has been a prime directive by our infrastructure staff and our director, is we are a resource. We can't be a healthcare organization in the middle of one of our most underserved communities in Philadelphia and not serve them, not know what their wants or needs are.
Speaker 1:So my job is to seek out in those neighborhoods that oftentimes are very hard to get into because of you know what's going out in society. You know, unfortunately, racism and things of that nature. I'm here to connect all of us, so my job is to understand and meet people where they're at, to sympathize with them. I do more because I tell them my story. Like listen, I don't have a degree, I don't have a PhD, but this is what I do, have lived experience and this is my story and I break down those barriers and those walls. Simple equation, simple equation. Sometimes people just make it very hard and it's down those barriers and those walls. Simple equation, simple equation. I sometimes people just make it very hard and it's like no empathy plus compassion equals results. That's it, that's the equation, right there, um, and you know it, to me, when I sit back and I look, you know, I don't think my, my manager or my director thought like, really what they were getting when they invested in my position with me is because it's not the run of the mill, following what everybody else is doing, is actually thinking outside of the box, innovative ways, not only speaking for the neurodiverse community, but befriending the neurodiverse community. I have many friends that are, you know, are self advocates, who are autistic themselves, and I learn from them each and every encounter, each and every day. I learn from them. That makes me a better advocate for myself, for my son and for them as well.
Speaker 1:You know putting on events. You know putting them together with other community organizations. You know entities within the community that are either embedded in this space or would like to be embedded in this space, and really making sure that parents and families are being connected with the right resources. That's what my job is. So when you do something you love, you really don't work. You just ask for more time. You wish it was more time and more things you can do for people, and that's where I'm at. But I love what I do. People ask me what you do. I tell them what it is and you know, yes, I get paid, but you know what? It's a job where I'm like this is something for my son, so he's going to see this. He's going to benefit directly from all the work that I'm doing, along with all the other amazing people like yourself like doing in this community. I'm just one little speck, a part of this big molecule that we're trying to create for everything. So, yeah, this is amazing. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 2:It is amazing and it's so cool that we have this ability, through the internet, to be able to connect with so many people, because how else would we have ever been able to meet each other to get to know, uh, what we're doing and know that we're kind of on, you know, the same page.
Speaker 2:We're trying to do the same thing, we're trying to kind of get the same results with the broken education system, with the fact that schools need to allow better, you know, companies to come in and give aid to our children, the fact that ADA compliance is not being met across the board, and there is just so much, so much to do, and so it feels like few people are, you know, to do it. But really, like you said, when we can come together like this, when we can meet and when we can bring each other together in events and things like that, you really can see the power of um, how it's going to make these movements happen. So we can only hope for the best, I think. In that case, what tell us about your podcast so people can go and listen and and hear about that?
Speaker 1:I'm always. I'm always shy because people my wife told me all the time she's like you should definitely be proud of your accomplishments. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm not doing it for the love life. So that's just. I'm just like I'm doing, yeah, but I'm not doing it for the love light. So, yeah, you know, that's just. I'm just like I'm doing it. I've been doing it. Actually, the podcast um was started back in 2014, so over a decade um to represent the awesome show.
Speaker 2:So I have oh, I love it that's the logo a little bit.
Speaker 1:But, um, that's the actual picture of me and Shane. We were on our way to Great Wolf Lodge and a follower, because I started the social media page first, before anything, and I was just putting out videos and content and what I stood for and the reason behind it. And he reached out to me and was like, listen, I'm not an autism father and the reason behind it. And he reached out to me and was like, listen, I'm not an autism father, I don't have anybody directly affected by autism, but I believe in you so much and I think what you're doing is great. And he's like can I make your logo? And I'm like, yeah, so he made my logo. He was like do you have a picture? And I was like, yeah, I have a picture of me and Shane. And he basically cartooned us and put the awesome show underneath of it. So, um, you know that's where that came from.
Speaker 1:And then later on now, with the nonprofit awesomeness incorporated, um, but the awesome show, um, I just felt like I needed to do more. I was doing you know, autism speaks walk. I raised a lot of money for that. I was coming up with creative campaigns and, um, I was very proud of myself, but I felt like there needed to be more. More people needed to hear me. So I ran into acquaintance, excuse me of an old friend who did an online radio show and I was like listen, this is my show. I think it will be a good fit for your online platform, what do you think? And he was like okay, so it was going to cost you like two, 50 every two weeks, which I did not have. I really didn't.
Speaker 1:Yes. So I paid that every two weeks and I came into his studio, which was in the middle of North Philadelphia, every Saturday morning. My show was on from nine to ten, no, nine to twelve, and what I did was I solicited all the guests. I researched all the, all the content. So what I found different topics that I thought about, that I wanted to know about, or things that I heard while doing community events that people were asking me or wanted to know about, that people were asking me or wanted to know about I touched on those guests. I solicited all that, even the music. The music was all music that you could listen to with your child, so you wouldn't have to worry about profanity, anything crazy, it was just feel good music. And I did that for about a year until I moved up here right before COVID, and then I stopped doing the show.
Speaker 1:But then me and a good friend of mine, ben Hartrath, we did a show called the Ben and Jay Show and it was sponsored by Access Services and we did that and we met the directors from Hero Elementary, we met one of the Baldwin brothers who has a child with autism. We met so many amazing, famous people you know through that venture. And then my wife was like, well, when are you bringing back the awesome show? And I was like, well, you know what You're right. So I'm bringing it back once again online, online, using online platforms, so social media, to do the interviews IG. And then after that I got an invitation to do online television. So the awesome show was actually on online television about two years ago, a local television station here in New Jersey, so I did the television show with that. And then once that the owner of the company, the television station, he said I actually have a nephew that has autism, so I believe so much in your cause. I want to give you 30 shows for free. I didn't pay anything. He just gave me 30 episodes for free. I said, great, so I had guests on there. I did my thing with that.
Speaker 1:Then I came back after that and I was like, ok, well, I'm going to just continue to podcast, which is I try to keep up with it, but I get to the point where now I have to yeah. Then a fellow firefighter out of New Jersey who follows me on social media. They have a Christian radio network called Wiz Radio. Shout out to DJ Wiz and he was like I think your show would be good for my platform. So now I'm on Wiz Radio every Saturdays from nine to 10 o'clock and that's online radio. So now the awesome show was now still a podcast on Spotify, apple Podcasts, wherever you podcast at, and then now you'll be able to hear me on Wiz Radio as well too. So I'm definitely blessed. I didn't think that that would happen, but we're still pumping out great conversation, great topics to talk about.
Speaker 1:My last podcast episode was talking about sexual abuse in the autism community. It's a real thing. I took a certification class for sexual abuse in general in a neurotypical community and you have to think about okay, well, what about autistic individuals, non-speaking speaking, those that need more supports, those with limited supports? It's a lot of, unfortunately, it's a lot of sexual abuse going on with our children, and we have to be cognizant of that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, Wow, that's a lot of work and you know it's really a test to. I can completely just resonate with this, a hundred percent. That one moment, that universe, god, everything that is. You say I need a louder voice and then guess what? Boom. You know what I mean. You're just like here, here, here and here and here, and now I'm like my fingers are all the cookie jars now.
Speaker 1:I get my taste of all the cookies.
Speaker 2:No, it's great, and it really totally, totally started with just that one idea and that one cry kind of out to my husband I need a louder voice, like I can't I'm. Things have to change in society. They have to listen, um, and here we are today, right 100 and 270 interviews later and here we go.
Speaker 1:That is a lot, trust me, from from one creator to the next. That is a lot. You should be very, very proud of yourself thank you and it's a lot so much I've learned.
Speaker 2:I've learned so so much and I'll continue to like my journey on this earth. I love that I can be an advocate and be a teacher or be a support system or a resource for anyone. But especially, I just want my kids to know you know eternally that like I, I'm their ride or die, I got their back. Like I'm here, I'm going to stick up for you in in every, in any way possible, and when you want me to back up, I'll do that too. I've already. You know I have a 24 year old.
Speaker 2:I already know when I get back up so it just kind of goes, goes like that. That's great. Where can we go to find all of this amazing information, to engage with you and to support you?
Speaker 1:So this is another thing I hate to talk about, but yeah, you can. So I forgot to mention that I'm an author too, so I have books. You can't see it because it's fading now, but my first book on Amazon is called Life is a Puzzle. God gave you a cheat sheet. This is a. This is really special to me. For one, I completed this book in a week. It took another week to to edit it and to go through it, so a total of two weeks. This book was made. So that's on amazoncom. You just type my name, jamil Owens, j-a-m-i-e-l, middle initial D and then Owens, and then it'll come up. Make sure it's not Jamie Owens, because that happens a lot of times too. And then I was actually. I have seven books, so I have seven books on Amazon.
Speaker 2:I do too, jamil.
Speaker 1:See, there you go.
Speaker 2:People have seven books, you and me. I'll tell you what. Seven books, two peas in a pod Exactly.
Speaker 1:Seven books in a pod exactly. We're good, we're. You're part of the awesome family.
Speaker 1:We're good, we're we're two, two like minds out here grinding and doing what we need to do. Um, seven books, four contributing articles, uh, uh on the internet, and then I also contribute to this book uh, superheroes on the spectrum. That just came out from um reverette Paxia and Dr Crystal Morrison. I'm actually in this book with 33 other amazing self-advocates, advocate authors in here, so definitely check that out. That's on Amazon as well, but also the awesome show. So if you go on to Instagram or Facebook, it's T-H-E-A-U-S-O-M-E-S-H-O-W. So if you're on IG, that's all together, but if you're on Facebook, regular awesome show.
Speaker 1:But I also, too, I tell a lot of people. You know I'm one phone call away. So for a dad or father, a male figure going through things, because I didn't have that space, you can definitely reach out to me. You know my email for at work is Owens O-W-E-N-S, j's and James D's and David at chop, c-h-o-p. Dot. E-d-u, and also, too, to my phone number area code 445-247-2071. I believe that's very important, especially in this day where people need instant gratification, and that goes for emergencies as well too. So to prevent another divorce, to prevent, you know, unfortunate thoughts of suicide or other things, unfortunate thoughts of suicide or other things, I'd rather give out my information for someone to give me a call directly, rather than say, oh well, just leave me an email and I get back to you in a day or two. It may not be that simple, so anybody can reach out to me. That's just how I am. Open book try to be.
Speaker 2:Love that. Oh, what an amazing, amazing, awesome hour that it has been. Thank you so, so, so much, and I'd love to invite you back because I think that we really could cover so many more topics and really get deep into some other ideologies and things, so would love to have you back on. Thank you, so much for your time today.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't wait to stay in touch. And um, for those of you who, um also are on our social media pages, you can go check out the SJ child show and also the uh pages that you can find. Um that uh Jamil shares his things are the advocates, autism advocate support group and autism events. Um, that uh Jamil shares his things are the advocates autism advocate support group and autism events. Um info. I yeah, I don't know. I'm like wait, what is that page name?
Speaker 1:But yeah, go check out the show notes.
Speaker 2:I'll I'll make sure to put all the links in so you can go follow everywhere. So thank you so much and we look forward to staying in touch, Of course.