Once underestimated due to his undiagnosed Asperger's, special education attorney Michael Gilberg joins us to shatter the outdated narratives surrounding autism, sharing his riveting story of triumph and the transformative power of recognizing the abilities within the spectrum. His journey from being misunderstood to advocating for others like him is a testament to the potential that lies in every individual's story. As we unravel Michael's personal and professional insights, we also confront the misconceptions that often clip the wings of those with autism, paving the way for a discussion that promises to reshape our understanding and approach to special education.
Navigating the labyrinth of special education legalities can be daunting for parents fighting for their children's rights. Through a candid conversation with Michael, we shine a light on the financial barriers, systemic challenges, and the short-sighted strategies that can hinder the growth of children with disabilities. This episode emphasizes the importance of long-term planning and the need for parents to arm themselves with knowledge and advocacy skills. Michael's expertise guides us through complex issues like cyberbullying and the evolving responsibilities of schools to protect their students in a digital world.
Join us as we explore the potential for systemic change through tax reform and legislative advocacy, with Michael Gilberg expressing his readiness to join forces with concerned parties. This is more than a call for better special education; it's a beacon for empowerment and hope for parents, guardians, and advocates seeking guidance. Michael's dedication to the cause is palpable, as he extends an invitation to listeners eager to make a difference, offering his expertise and support in the shared mission to ensure a brighter, more equitable educational landscape for our children.
Once underestimated due to his undiagnosed Asperger's, special education attorney Michael Gilberg joins us to shatter the outdated narratives surrounding autism, sharing his riveting story of triumph and the transformative power of recognizing the abilities within the spectrum. His journey from being misunderstood to advocating for others like him is a testament to the potential that lies in every individual's story. As we unravel Michael's personal and professional insights, we also confront the misconceptions that often clip the wings of those with autism, paving the way for a discussion that promises to reshape our understanding and approach to special education.
Navigating the labyrinth of special education legalities can be daunting for parents fighting for their children's rights. Through a candid conversation with Michael, we shine a light on the financial barriers, systemic challenges, and the short-sighted strategies that can hinder the growth of children with disabilities. This episode emphasizes the importance of long-term planning and the need for parents to arm themselves with knowledge and advocacy skills. Michael's expertise guides us through complex issues like cyberbullying and the evolving responsibilities of schools to protect their students in a digital world.
Join us as we explore the potential for systemic change through tax reform and legislative advocacy, with Michael Gilberg expressing his readiness to join forces with concerned parties. This is more than a call for better special education; it's a beacon for empowerment and hope for parents, guardians, and advocates seeking guidance. Michael's dedication to the cause is palpable, as he extends an invitation to listeners eager to make a difference, offering his expertise and support in the shared mission to ensure a brighter, more equitable educational landscape for our children.
Welcome to the SJ Child Show, where a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. Enjoy the show. Hi, welcome to the SG Child Show today. I am so welcome, welcome. I am so glad to welcome a friend of mine from across the United States. Of course, it's so wonderful when we have Zoom because we're just right next to each other and we can have this great conversation. This is attorney Michael Gilbert and I'm so glad to have you here today. We are going to discuss your career and your story. Hopefully you can give us your background and tell us a little bit about yourself and we'll see where the conversation takes us. Thanks for being here today, michael.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Sarah, for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really nice to have you here. You've been in a couple of events with me so I luckily, you know we've been able to chat and get to know each other one a little bit. But this is great for listeners and for people who are parents of autistics or just maybe guardians. We're going to talk today about special education law, but let me stop introducing too much before I let you introduce yourself.
Speaker 1:Hi. So, as you said, I should introduce myself. My name is Michael Gilbert. I'm a special education attorney. I grew up with undiagnosed Asperger's, as so many of us did in the 80s and 90s, and you know as I always tell people when I was a child, they put me in special ed and they told my mother throw your son away, forget about him. He's never going to graduate high school. And now I'm a lawyer. So clearly the quote unquote. Experts did not know what they were talking about.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's changed much. I mean only I know personally in my community there was a time where my own child, who is profoundly gifted, was told the same thing like he'll, he'll never do this, he'll never do that, he'll never, never, never, never. And you just think, are you kidding me? Like why would you even preface to give a parent that kind of information?
Speaker 1:but anyways, go back to your a lot, a lot of nevers. And so I always say when I was a child they thought autism was just kids sitting in the corner banging their head against the wall, who couldn't speak, who were nonverbal or non-speaking as we now speak. I've had to learn over the years from friends and colleagues in the field that the term non-speaking is preferred to non-verbal. My mother says I was pre-verbal, but I think that a lot of people didn't understand the wideness of the spectrum and the diversity of the spectrum back in the 70s and 80s and 90s and so they put me in special ed and I never got an appropriate education. I was always academically able to do the work, but the social, emotional piece came difficulty.
Speaker 1:And I always tell the story about the social worker who told my mother when I was in sixth grade throw your son away, he won't graduate high school and meanwhile violated the trust of the one friend I had who they said was perfectly adjusted, sent him back to public school and, because this kid could never trust an adult again, ended up committing suicide when he was 16 because the social worker violated his trust and repeated things that were told to him privately to the entire class. So, as I say, they failed me, but they failed him worse. Yeah, because I'm still here. What, what is it 30 years later?
Speaker 1:yeah, god, it makes me feel old, but um incredible yeah and so what I learned back then is just because somebody has a bunch of letters after their name doesn't make them an expert isn't that the truth?
Speaker 2:and you know it's so sad when parents rely on these experts to help them find their resources and their next step. And you know, I think, that we're so lucky today that we have all of these, you know, later diagnosed or even early diagnosed autistics that are making their way into these careers, that are now hopefully scooching out some of those people with the wrong ideas and the wrong mindset and the inability to really see and perceive somebody's abilities based on their human dignity rather than their lack of, you know, patience and being able to sit still and things right, and I think the you know, as they always say, the best experience is lived experience, and so, instead of people who write about autism in a book or learned in a class, we now have professionals working in it who have the lived experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know what that's so interesting. You say that we're talking when you, you know, had mentioned about nonverbal versus non-speaking. I had just recently had a podcast with a widow, I believe, and we were talking about the term lived and not living, and using the term living experiences, that a lived experience to uphold the grace of that kind of a conversation.
Speaker 1:So learning, learning, yeah. Who said I'm not nonverbal, I'm not speaking?
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I, because, again, it's not something that my lived experience, obviously, and so it's about learning about that and about there. And I forget the exact definition of why it's nonverbal versus non-speaking, but we're not not speaking versus nonverbal, but I think it's very interesting. I think that, again, everybody's experience is unique and now having people who've had that lived experience is important. I was talking to somebody about this last night who's also on the spectrum and you know we were discussing that she was also a special ed attorney about how it's so different nowadays because you have actual adults on the spectrum who are working in these fields, not just children, not just theoretical, and I think the fact again, like I said before, so many people have this conception of autism.
Speaker 1:I've had people say to me but you don't look autistic. I don't know what looking autistic means. Or girls I know on the spectrum where people will say she's too pretty to be autistic. I'm not exactly sure what that means. The one that they always say is but you're not like Temple Grandin, and taking, every autistic has to be Temple Grandin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, just you know, and that's happened over and over.
Speaker 1:And I'm like yeah, yeah, just you know, that's what happened over and over. And I'm like no, I'm not, I'm not, no, I'm not. Like temple grandin. She's a woman 30 years older than me who's also got a completely different personality a hundred percent, no, and we really have.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you if you have. You've seen that in the field that oh yeah, sorry, we have a little a little lag in our it's getting frustrating that that everybody on the in the autism world gets told you're not like temple brandon and she's.
Speaker 1:They've made her this template for everybody yeah, yeah, uh.
Speaker 2:We have to give um real big understanding and perspective to that and you, thank goodness, that's why we're doing podcasts like these, so that we can shed the real identity of the complexity, of how many layers the spectrum can have, and not just this simple one line to one person and this is what everything looks like, because that's just not true at all. I mean, here we are, here I am personally representing what a female autistic looks like and what a female autistic you know does for work or does socially, and people see that and just like you said, totally disagree.
Speaker 1:Not all female autistic are non-speaking. That's a different situation. You don't have that lived experience.
Speaker 2:Yep, so we really have to just realize every human experience is different, and especially for those on the autism spectrum who now we are able to, yeah, have better understanding with wonderful attorneys like you, and I think one thing I've learned is people have asked me about certain things have better understanding with wonderful attorneys like you.
Speaker 1:And I think one thing I've learned is people have asked me about certain things and I've said for the autistics, who are what they call profoundly autistic and have trouble feeding themselves or going to the bathroom for themselves I can't speak for them because that's not my lived experience.
Speaker 2:Exactly Well, let's talk about your experience, since that's why my lived experience. Exactly Well, let's talk about your experience, since that's why you are here, and let's talk about what it looked like to gain the education to become a lawyer. What did that, you know? When was your desire to do that and kind of what path did you follow?
Speaker 1:So growing up I always knew I wasn't getting the right education. Unfortunately, the special ed world I learned as I went through. I went to growing up. I went to grad school in psychology, thought I would help people on the spectrum that way. It was the wrong answer. And then my father got sick and 9-11 happened, and so I dropped out of grad school right before 9-11, actually and then went back to realize law school. My mother always said that I could argue with anyone and I'd be a great lawyer, from when I was a kid and I realized she was actually right all along.
Speaker 2:My daughter sees the truth that I've told her that too.
Speaker 1:My mother still reminds me of that to this day, and so my. So I went to law school and I realized there was a need in special ed law. There's a lot of colleagues of mine who do it, but there's not enough. There's more work, as they say, more work than attorneys. The problem is not a lot of parents can't pay for attorneys. And there's not a great way to fund it for parents. Parents fund the system for parents who don't have the money for attorneys.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And part of the problem we face, though what I've seen in the system is I realize this is what I want to do. I got out of law school, I got some experience and now I'm a practicing special ed attorney, and one of the things I have found in doing the field is I have too much about the school districts and this is true of school districts all over the country, and this is true of school districts all over the country. It's about saving money on taxes and not educating the child to the need possible, and people don't understand. You give that child the maximum chance to be independent and he's a taxpayer later in life, working supporting himself, versus somebody living on public assistance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, isn't that the truth?
Speaker 1:They need to look at more of a big picture rather than what they're doing right then right and they don't look at that, and it comes down to how much is this going to cost? Yeah and so I've seen the system broken, and I got into this field because I wanted to prevent other children from going through what I went through as a child yeah, let's um see what some of my questions I got here.
Speaker 2:How would a parent know or I guess they would know when they needed to reach out to an attorney? What does that process look like for them? They call you and then how do you help determine if it's something you can help them with or not?
Speaker 1:Well, I let the parents tell me their story and there are times I've had to say to parents look, you don't have a case. And it's always frustrating to tell a parent you don't have a case. And parents obviously want the best for their child, but I have to tell them when they when they're legally entitled to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And how much do you see across the board that schools are trying to be in compliance with these federal regulations and things, versus just not caring, like you said, saving money?
Speaker 1:I think it varies from school district to school district. I think that in many cases it's about money, because they don't want to be the person, the school administrators don't want to be the person to raise taxes. I hate to say it all comes down to taxes, but in many ways schools are funded by tax dollars and so it's about being quoted, as they like to say, responsible stewards of people's tax money, and so they. But they forget, and I find that in a lot of places you have parents um, sorry, I was looking at something in In many places you have parents who you have parents who want the best for their child, and a lot of parents will take the attitude of it's not my child, not my problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. What do you see when? Maybe let's see if we can come up with a good example. What about schools disciplining kids? What does that look like in special education kids? What does that?
Speaker 1:look like in special education schools disciplining children with, especially the autism world. It's very schools that are just too harsh and schools that go overboard with with discipline and schools that don't handle discipline the right way, and so you have kids who end up with restraints. You have kids who end up locked in seclusion rooms. You have kids who you know, kids who. Just the problem in schools is that most of the time when kids quote-unquote misbehave, their punishments are punitive. They're not to teach a lesson on how to be better.
Speaker 2:They do things that are punitive and that just seems so backwards in trying to help a child develop skills for the future.
Speaker 1:That's tricky Right. And so these schools will say and very often they will take the autistic child and say he's at fault, even if he was provoked, because it's easy to blame him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's just crazy.
Speaker 1:You know, know, I've had schools tell me oh, he's just a bad kid. No, he's not a bad kid. You're not giving him what he needs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not giving him the support he needs, but they will call it a child, a bad kid yeah, and you really have to wonder why they're in the position they're in with that kind of an attitude and perception of children.
Speaker 1:I think the problem is people go into teaching for, I think, in many cases, the right reasons. But when you're a 25-year-old fresh out of college teacher, you're not the same person as when you're a 50 year old administrator who's jaded yeah and I think a lot of these people, once they move up the ladder, when they become administrators, they become jaded. They're making a lot more money. They're much older and I think they're getting pressure from the school board yeah, definitely, and that's really tricky.
Speaker 2:So you probably do a lot of um calls about ieps and 504s and things like that.
Speaker 1:My life is iep iep life.
Speaker 2:We have ours tomorrow, michael. We won't get into that on our podcast here, but yeah it's-.
Speaker 1:And it's funny you mentioned 504s, because 99 times out of 100 of a child on the spectrum has a 504, he or she should have an IEP. Yeah, agreed. And people always ask what's the difference and I always say a 504, it's the analogy. Give a man a fish, teach a man a fish. A 504 is the analogy. Give a man a fish, teach a man a fish. A 504 is giving him a fish. An iep teaches him to fish. And you use a 504 for disabilities, where you can't teach skills to improve outcomes. I had a girl once with a peanut allergy. We couldn't teach her to be not allergic to peanuts. Yeah, she just is's a 504. But for child of the spectrum who needs to learn those life skills, you need those IEP and IEP because you need those measurable goals as they fall.
Speaker 2:And that's when you come into place, when these schools aren't being, aren't holding the accountability on themselves to follow these, these goals and IEPs and measures, ability on themselves to follow these, these goals and IEPs and measures. What happens generally when a school is at fault? What does that look like? Going forward in a process?
Speaker 1:what'd you?
Speaker 2:say, if a school is at fault for maybe breaking um the IEP or, you know, contractually breaking their part of how do how? What does that look like? Moving forward? What do you do then?
Speaker 1:Families generally hire an attorney, like myself and the, the. The goal is to quote, unquote, sue, or to use an attorney to negotiate, potentially file a lawsuit to sue over what they're looking for. The unfortunate part of it is the system in many ways is stacked against the parents, at least in New York, for example, if you appeal to the state, the state generally, even if you win at the hearing level, there's a state office that handles state appeals and they are notoriously pro-school district and that's a problem.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah, that's hard for parents.
Speaker 1:And the problem is, I've had school districts' attorneys say to me that the school district can spend the parents under the table, and that's the problem too. The school districts have much deeper pockets than the parents under the table and that's the problem too. The school districts have much deeper pockets than the parents do yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:What if parents?
Speaker 1:are not. What's the word? Yeah most parents are not wealthy no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And what do you do if your child's civil rights have been broken and you, you do have you know something like how do you do if your child's civil rights have been broken and you do have you know something like how do you remain strong as a parent or, you know, as would you as an attorney, you know, say to them, yeah, let's keep going forward with this.
Speaker 1:I think it depends on the individual case. I think it depends on the individual attorney. Unfortunately, I think it depends on the state you're in, because even though the IDEA, which is a special education law, is a federal law, it's not applied the same in every state.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:And the problem is the hearing officers, or essentially the judges, are hired by individual states, and so you end up in a situation where every state is different and some states are better than others, and you would think a state like New York would be pretty good, and they're not, and part of it is that the hearing officers, who are supposed to be independent, to me at least, lack a certain level of independence in how they're hired. And, like I said, they have this office in Albany that does appeals, and when you appeal up to the state review office, they are too pro-district.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's tough for kids and for the most part though, I'm sure even just being able to call a special education attorney sometimes, do you think for the most part, will move the experience along, or whatever the predicament might be for the student and family.
Speaker 1:I think it depends on the individual student. I think it's very hard, for me at least, when I get a call from a mother who says I need help. This is why, and then the mother ends up I can't help her. She can't afford to hire me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's tricky, huh.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and I think that that's always a challenge to me. The problem, like I said, is parents are not given money saying this is your legal budget in case you need it, and unfortunately there's not enough out there to help those in need.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:As a country and as a society. I'd like to see us find more ways to fund parents who need attorneys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. You said that because that was going to be my next question is what do you think we can do as a society, as parents or, you know, community, to help provide more resources or help for families like this?
Speaker 1:I think I know someone in Connecticut. She started a grant program and they've given us thousands and thousands of dollars to parents over the past I think five years for special ed to hire attorneys and advocates, and I think that is so important to have grant programs.
Speaker 2:I love that. I think that that is a really great idea and anybody listening. If that's something that you can implement in your community, I mean, please take that idea and run with it. I think that's a fantastic idea, definitely. What is your plan? Moving forward, just practicing? Do you have anything else that you're doing?
Speaker 1:you know speaking events, things like that well, I do a lot of speaking locally and I do a like podcast, like what I'm doing with you now, to speak both about my own experiences and about the system from, as I say, the inside, because I think there's so much to be gained from having that life experience and to educate parents that, yes, there are attorneys and advocates, and, in some cases, nonprofits, out there to help you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:And I think part of the problem is sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 2:I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 1:School districts don't tell parents what they don't want them to know. Parents, you know a lot of parents assume the school district is giving them all the information.
Speaker 1:But, there's always that little bit of information that the school district's like hey, let's not tell the mother this, what she doesn't know won't hurt us. And so you have a lot of cases where the parents don't tell the school district, the school district doesn't tell the parents everything, and the parents always say to me I wish I knew then what I know now isn't that the truth, and I think part of the problem is the law requires parents education, but how schools do that it was very different in every place yeah and what's your definition of parent education?
Speaker 1:you know this was to educate parents on what their child needs and advocating for them, but in some cases I've heard of schools where they'll just say literally um, go sit in this room and watch this dvd and that's their parent education yeah, I think our school sends us a link of a place that's downtown and we can go there right, parent education is one of the most underutilized resources in special ed.
Speaker 1:So it's a big issue because, again and I've also learned the other thing is, parenting is one of the most important jobs in the world and one of the only ones you don't need a license for. Yeah, you don't need a credential to parent, you just need to be able to have a child it's dangerous, I think dangerous, I think.
Speaker 2:I said dangerous.
Speaker 1:In what sense that anybody?
Speaker 2:no, just kidding, just that. You have to. You know all these in life. You have to have licenses, like you said, and then you can go and just bring a human into the world. Exactly.
Speaker 1:And the issue is that some parents are very capable and very good and know exactly what they're doing, and some parents are clueless. Yeah, go to know exactly what they're doing, and some parents are clueless. And again, anybody can be a parent, and some parents are not equipped to advocate for their child, and so the schools are not going to help them with that. And so part of the IDEA, which is the federal law, is to level the playing field between the haves and have-nots, to level the playing field between the parents who have the resources, who have the understanding of the systemves, and have-nots, the level of the playing field between the parents who have the resources, who have the understanding of the system, and those who need their hand held the entire way.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's part of what the law did, the law did it's supposed to do is to even that playing field between all parents, since, as I said, anybody can be a parent. Again, one of the most important jobs are one of the only ones you don't need a license for, and I'm not certain of being a doctor or lawyer. You need a license to be a plumber, an electrician, I mean granted, you want an electrician, knows what they're doing people a back rub. You need a license, but to be a parent you don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah yep, that is the truth. What kind of um? How do you stay updated on the information for, uh, the law and things like that? What kind of things do you do to do that?
Speaker 1:I do CLEs, I talk to colleagues. I'm going next week to my national conference, copa, which is the Council of Parent Attorneys and Advocates, which is special ed attorneys and advocates from all over the country. We'll be in Atlanta for a week, so it's a very collegial community of law. It's not one of those areas of law where people are cutthroat and trying to all cut each other's hands off.
Speaker 2:More or less trying to work together.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Right, because, again, we all want to make the system better and so much of the system right now is broken and things are caught up in bureaucracy and you know, in New York particularly, you find a lot of bureaucracy, so that's how we all stay updated. I mean, it's an area of law where the law doesn't change very much, but then there's always new things. Like I say, one of the recent advents on special ed law is cyberbullying. When the laws were written 15, 20 years ago or updated last, cyberbullying wasn't a real. Written 15, 20 years ago or updated last, cyberbullying wasn't a real issue.
Speaker 1:Now it's a huge issue yeah, absolutely I'm seeing a lot of kids on the spectrum pardon me getting bullied online and the schools take the attitude of well, it's happening outside of school, but it's starting with something that started in the school yeah, yeah, the accountability is real tricky, isn't it?
Speaker 1:very much so, and so the problem is that you know these. These problems start in school and they come and then they end up seeping over to the house and, like I have a kid recently a client with a parent uh, somebody went on discord or classmates and talked about hanging him and the school took the attitude well, it didn't happen at school, but it's a result of school and it's still. He's going on discord or not, he's not. His classmates are. And drawing a picture of his head in a news.
Speaker 2:Kid on the spectrum oh, horrible, horrible exactly and it's so hard because how do we, as parents, even want to turn our kids over to any of these schools for them to try to get an education and therefore be subjected by the? Uh, you know other classmates who don't want to practice kindness or humanity or dignity?
Speaker 1:exactly, and the problem is you always get and I've had cases where you've had the teacher who says I've been a teacher for 40 years. This kid needs to need whatever. They just need a good, swift, tough love. And they need to be given like a figurative smack, because you can't give a literal smack yeah, right.
Speaker 2:well, and what about physical punishments in school? Um, like, what if a school makes all the children in the class, including the kids on the IEPs, climb the stairs for being too noisy when they leave library? What does that look like? Is that violating any of their rights, or is that?
Speaker 1:kind of a school thing. I mean, just because you're autistic or have a disability doesn't mean you can. You can go disrupt other people's school day no, absolutely not, but as a does it as a group punishment and then includes that child.
Speaker 2:Is that better or worse?
Speaker 1:I think it depends on the individual situation it's tricky, huh yeah, I think it's not easy, I think, and I think the problem is it's so different from school to school. You know, what works in one school might not work on another not only our special education kids but all the planning and everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just in general, to just realize that we're trying to create them to be successful, skilled people in the future. Yeah, and let's have our focus be on that and maybe having kind of an ideology that we need to look forward more, rather than exactly at the point we're at with in education to help kids well, and I always say that you know for the people who worry about tax dollars, let's think long term.
Speaker 1:You give this kid services now. He's got a better chance to be independent and be, as I said, a, not a tax taker. Yeah, it's good for people on the spectrum and it's also good for people. Saving tax dollars is give these kids services now so they can be independent later and you will see the roles of people on social security.
Speaker 2:Disability plummets yeah, and you think that that would be their hope and their desire for, ultimately, for that to be happening but the problem I find in schools is they don't think long term.
Speaker 1:They think one or two years at a time and that's it. They think how can I get through the next year Now? How can I get this kid through the next 10?
Speaker 2:years, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:I get these kids who are five and six and they think about where will they be in a year, which is important, but they don't think what can I do to get this kid to the next 15 years so that when he graduates high school he can go to college and be independent and have a job?
Speaker 2:Yep, so important to do that.
Speaker 1:And, as I said, I think it would reduce some of the problems people complain about with taxes in general in the country if the person was a taxpayer, not a tax taker, so to speak and maybe as parents and you know anybody listening.
Speaker 2:Maybe our legislature is the best place to start to create some kind of change, and I'm not sure what that looks like, but if anyone has great ideas, reach out to me and we'll start it together.
Speaker 1:If you're in New York or Colorado, please reach out to me. If you're a parent in need of support for your child and services with the school district, you can Google my website, Michael Gilbert ESQ. Again, that's michaelgilbertesqcom.
Speaker 2:Thank you, that's exactly what I was going to ask you. Next You're just on top of it. That's fantastic.
Speaker 1:I know how to publicize myself. That is one skill that some autistics don't have that I am very good at there you go.
Speaker 2:Well, it's been really nice catching up with you and giving our listeners an idea of what special education is like and what it is like to be an attorney, and the experience we can all take as a community, as parents, to maybe help fix these systems that do not work so well for our kids and their bright futures.
Speaker 1:I'm happy to have been here, Sarah, and to join you and share my experience. I hope it was beneficial to you and your listeners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and we're friends, so we'll be in touch and I'll be definitely, you know, letting you know when this is ready to be released, and, yeah, go from there.
Speaker 1:I'm glad Thanks so much. Thank you.