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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW
Looking for an inspiring podcast on education and parenting? Check out "The SJ Childs Show," ranked in the top 10% of podcasts globally. It covers diverse topics, including neurodiversity and inclusion, featuring interviews with experts and thought-provoking discussions. This show aims to challenge your beliefs and enhance your skills as a parent, educator, and global citizen. Tune in for unique insights and perspectives!
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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW
Bonus Episode-The Art of Adventure in Middle-Grade Literature with Author Geoffrey Wells
Once upon a time, Geoffrey Wells went from orchestrating the airwaves as a broadcasting executive to spinning tales as a full-time writer. This episode invites you into a riveting chat with Geoffrey, who takes us on a journey through his literary metamorphosis and the vibrant worlds he creates for middle-grade readers. Channeling his childhood, steeped in the written word thanks to his father's influence, Geoffrey uncovers the power of storytelling and how a fleeting suggestion from his editor opened the doors to adventure-filled thrillers for younger audiences.
Amid the suspense of fiction, Geoffrey and I navigate the real-world tangle of art, technology, and wildlife conservation. We unravel a tale of a New York composer, caught in the web of cybercrime and the shadowy ivory trade, that takes readers from the comfort of the city to the heart of Africa's poaching crisis. In our discourse, we cross over into the realm of audio adaptations, exploring the terrain of bringing stories like "The Drowning Bay" to life, where the stakes of environmental activism are as high as the tides that threaten to engulf us all.
Wrapping up our exchange, the episode honors the profound impact of children's literature in nurturing empathy and resilience in young minds. I get personal, sharing my experience writing poetic tales for children like my autistic son and dyslexic daughter, aiming to lay the foundations of an 'inner home' of courage and authenticity. We applaud the importance of writing communities in honing one's craft and the joy of storytelling that unites us. With gratitude, we reflect on the shared journey with Geoffrey Wells and the anticipation of fostering connections with listeners like you, who seek the depth of the written and spoken narrative.
Welcome to the SJ Child Show, where a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. Enjoy the show, Hi, and thanks for joining the SG Child Show today. I am here with Jeffrey Wells Joffrey Jeffrey. Jeffrey, yes, feels like I want to be English with you or something. So where are you calling in from today? Or, I guess, videoing in?
Speaker 1:From Long Island.
Speaker 2:Okay, wonderful, I'm over in Salt Lake City, utah, and it's a brisk, chilly day here and ready for spring.
Speaker 1:My parents lived there for many years.
Speaker 2:Really. Yeah, it is a very beautiful place. It has beautiful seasons and, yeah, especially if you're an outdoors person and everything so fantastic.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of skiing in Utah.
Speaker 2:A lot of skiing. I used to ski when I was younger, but I haven't since. I've had kids and have been an adult, darn it. Now it seems like, oh, it'd be so overwhelming and so expensive. Probably, yeah, isn't that the way it goes? It's so nice to have you here today. I'm excited to talk to you about your books and your passion writing and kind of learn more about where that came from and get to know you. So give us a brief introduction of who you are and kind of what brought you here today.
Speaker 1:Terrific. My name is Jeffrey Wells. I'm an author. I have written three thrillers and one middle grade thriller as well. I grew up in South Africa, came here in 1980, and had a life in the corporate America where I was vice president in broadcasting for both ABC and then later on at the Fox television stations. Wow. So I'd been writing my first novel in the last 10 years before I left, and when I was ready to publish it, I said that's it, I'm out of here. You know I want to write full time and that's what I've been doing ever since.
Speaker 2:A writer's life. It shall be. I love that I can kind of see you just kind of taking the next step. You know that's so fascinating. As a child do you remember having was this something you'd always wanted to do? Or what kind of books did you read then and what maybe turned you on to the thriller genre?
Speaker 1:Well, as a child, you know, my dad was an academic, but he was in the field of mining engineering, which doesn't sound terribly literary. However, he had a love of literature and he read to us from the classics. So, you know, we had an old-fashioned family. We all sat around the dining room table and we lived on a farm and I remember him reading, you know Swiss family Robinson, and you know just um 300 leagues under the sea and you know all of these great classics, and he would break down the sentences for us. He'd say now that word was used because of this, you know, and I loved that. You know, he understood the etymology of the words and it was very infectious and so that stayed with me.
Speaker 1:So I was a young reader, you know, through high school, and I was always reading. I was always reading up, you know, several grades ahead of where I should have been reading. But I loved that because it sort of gave me a vicarious thrill that I was doing something naughty, you know. But I was basically reading the books that my parents were reading. And so now, you know, when you read about agents talking about what young kids are reading, or especially young teenagers and middle school kids. They're saying you know, don't be too precious about what you write about, they want the adventure, they want the thrill, they want the adventure, they want the thrill. And so I brought that in mind when I wrote Middle. Nevertheless, as far as thriller is concerned, you know I also loved John le Carré, one of my first experiences with reading spy thrillers, and I loved the concept of you know the man who came in from the cold and etc. So that was thrilling to me and I found an excuse to write about that in my first novel.
Speaker 2:I love that. I think when you have those childhood experiences they can grow and nurture so much within you and you're so lucky as a human to be taking advantage of that childhood kind of love. Because I think that when we put ourselves in those excuse me experiences, it also makes us feel younger and kind of you know re-experience, that love of what it was like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you're transported to a different world and that's what I loved as a kid. You know I could find myself on an island somewhere and be shipwrecked and, you know, go in great danger to all these places through the pages of a book, without ever having to risk it myself. So it was a precarious thrill, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And when did you have the idea then to create it for middle schoolers as well? I think that that was a fantastic idea, because I remember that was about probably elementary school. Late elementary, early middle school was that same genre for me, that detective, I mean, I think at my time you know James Patterson just coming out and I had 25 James Patterson books and I just was always, you know, solving the murder mystery.
Speaker 1:And oh, it's such a round of excitement. It absolutely is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when did you? Yeah, so when did that start for you to think, oh, maybe I should do this. And how did you take that and switch?
Speaker 1:After I'd written my three thrillers, I had no intention of writing a middle grade book, but my editor at the time said and my editor at the time said my protagonist for the same story was an elderly gentleman in his 80s, you know, and he was observing two kids and she said you really should write it from the kid's point of view. And I said you know, I have no experience with that, I wouldn't know where to begin. So she said, yeah, you do Just write it. You know I have no experience with that, I wouldn't know where to begin. So she said, yeah, you do Just write it.
Speaker 2:You were a kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I rewrote the draft and it really was prompted by the fact that we had this tragedy where I live, in my town. By the fact that we had this tragedy where I live in my town, you know, we had three overdose victims die from fentanyl and I thought, wow, it's so tragic that the adults died. The kids who have to watch a parent, you know, die as a result of taking these pills is incomprehensible, and how must they feel?
Speaker 1:And I thought, in order to write a story that would empower them and not frighten them to death, I want to turn it into where they have the upper hand over impossible odds. And so that's what I did. You have these two kids on opposite sides of the social spectrum, one privileged, the other one a Latino dreamer kid, who bond over playing soccer, and they discover a tunnel which leads to a mill where the drugs are being, you know, smuggled in to Long Island. And one thing leads to another and they get caught up, at times running for their lives and at other times outsmarting the bad guys. And so I made it into an adventure and helping kids understand that confronting your fears is much more healthy than running away from them.
Speaker 2:Isn't that true? What kind of feedback have you gotten about that book, isn't?
Speaker 1:that true? What kind of feedback have you gotten about that book? Well, I've gotten wonderful reviews from you know, terrific sources. The reviews that I have on Amazon are, you know they're good, but it's not as many as I want you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think it's kind of a scary subject, you know.
Speaker 2:So I kind of understand that and that's why I'm doing a lot of podcasting and guesting to see if I can get the word out about that book, and I agree, and I think that when we can put real life excuse me situations into understand, so that when and if, and hopefully, they don't ever have to come up against those situations, but if they do, they have a tiny bit of knowledge to you know. See, okay, I remember this situation in which they took this choice next, or made this step, so I think that that's brilliant to kind of put those issues in the forefront, even though, yeah, people don't want to look at those things and that's tricky.
Speaker 1:It's a tough subject.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I faced that same stigma. I mean, I had children's books about special needs 10, you know, seven, eight years ago now and it was still like no, no, we don't. That's not. You know, that's not what people are looking for, but that's what they need to know about. They need to know how to, how to be in society and live with people, and we all need knowledge of how to do those things and that exactly what you have written about in that book is so valuable for young adults to start to see those consequences and be able to make their own better choices.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know it's it's. Once you get through understanding the approach of the book, it's easy for these kids to wrap their heads around what's really going on, and that is basically to save their dads. So you have these two 12-year-olds, you know, whose mission in life is to not turn their dads into overdose victims and save them from the pills, and so that's their motivation, you know, and that's what they go about trying to solve, Wow.
Speaker 2:Well, let's back up backwards. We went, went forward and talk about the first three books, and you said that you'd been working on it for a decade before you decided to do that. I know exactly what that looks like. That looks like, um, even though my books are very small, I still have so many of them that I still need to get out there someday. Uh, but I think the process is is really, really amazing, what? So let's talk about the first book. What's that one?
Speaker 1:so a photo for the river.
Speaker 1:A photo is a Portuguese ballad and it's about nostalgia and regret and it's well established in Portuguese culture.
Speaker 1:Now, when I was growing up in South Africa, our neighboring country was Mozambique, which was a Portuguese colony, and when I was at university, me and a friend drove there to have some fun and we stayed in the shipping offices because his dad was with the bank that partially funded the shipping and there was a young secretary there who I had a crush on and you know, nothing ever happened, but I thought that is such a and you know, nothing ever happened, but I thought that is such a great platform, you know, for a story, because you have these two naive boys who get to know her and they realize that she knows she has a secret that three warring factions this was one year before the revolution in Mozambique all wanted and that was what is the name and time of arrival of the ship carrying guns into Mozambique.
Speaker 1:They all needed the ammunition and they all needed the arms, and that was a true historical fact. There was the Portuguese government, there was the Portuguese army, who were ready to overthrow the government, and then there were the indigenous people who were fighting for their self-determination. And they all were on the verge of war. And, of course, war happened. And 16 years, a million deaths later, it was just hell. But these kids decided she needed to get out of the country because she was not going to survive.
Speaker 1:And I don't want to make too much of a long story of it, but that was that story and he sets about it, catches up with him later in life when he's blackmailed and accused of murdering her. And of course he didn't murder her, he helped her escape by faking her murder.
Speaker 2:Oh goodness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so he had to prove that he didn't murder her. And he tracks her down and realizes that she was a heroine of the revolution and saved millions of lives because of what she did. So it's one of those, one of those stories.
Speaker 2:You know how much cultural ideas you were able to gain from being in different parts of the world and seeing all that and adding them to your stories. I think that's just. It's fascinating to your stories.
Speaker 1:I think that's just it's fascinating.
Speaker 2:I have a love of geography, so I love to learn about other places and hear stories about them and envision what it's like and things. I think that that makes it really magical and relatable to several different types of audiences. So what did that look like? The next book, how did you decide? Okay, well, is it like a second to the first, or is it completely different?
Speaker 1:It's somewhat related because the story a tone for the ivory cloud. The ivory cloud is where elephant ivory is traded illegally and it's traded through the internet, and the atonement that needed to happen was the fact that we're all somehow complicit in elephant ivory because we use ivory. Our culture, a lot of our culture, is based on ivory, in the sense that we go to piano concerts. Those piano keys were made from ivory. You know, net people never really realized that, but elephants were dying for every keyboard that that was played on, and so you know the elephants were being decimated.
Speaker 1:So what I do in that story is I take a new york composer, just graduated from juilliard, you know, at the top of her career, and she does a lot of online collaboration with musicians, and she loses her phone in central park and two weeks later the f FBI knock on her door and they say we have your phone, but we have to tell you that your website is being used by cybercrime syndicate to trade African ivory.
Speaker 1:And she goes what? I don't know what, I have absolutely nothing to do with it, I know nothing about it. And they say yeah, we know that because that's exactly why they're using your site, because they can hide behind it and it's a front for them. And so she gets involved. She gets pulled into a mission to bring down these warlords in Africa and it's extremely dangerous. And she gets teamed up with a Tanzanian street vendor who also has information about the marketplaces and trading, and so I wrote about that and how she goes back to Africa with him and it's an adventure that turns the pages, oh my goodness, I mean, I was just thinking I'm going to re-listen to this and be told stories over and over again.
Speaker 2:That's fantastic. Have you done your books on Audible, or just in um in? Yeah?
Speaker 1:it's a good question. I am about to embark on that, on that project. I have not done it yet and I'm looking forward to getting uh, yeah, getting into that I think that they will be definitely road trip listeners for sure.
Speaker 2:It sounds like something I would definitely want to be listening to and you know I loved to read my whole life. I loved to write, but my I really don't enjoy just like book reading as much as I used to. But I do love to listen to when I can and I guess that you just kind of go with where your your best learning. You know style will take you.
Speaker 1:Which media? Which media lends itself to the way you learn right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's so nice that they have so many things available.
Speaker 1:And I heard from more and more authors that they they make more money from their audio books than from their printed books.
Speaker 2:Oh, wonderful.
Speaker 1:So I'm definitely going to check it out. I've been slow because I've been intimidated, frankly, about getting in. You know doing it and I've been writing books.
Speaker 2:Absolutely but.
Speaker 1:I do intend to do that.
Speaker 2:And are you going to read it yourself or hire someone? I mean, you have a wonderful voice for that and I guess you would really know how to put all the right emphasis into it.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm just not a performer.
Speaker 2:I'm just not.
Speaker 1:I just don't think I can pull off those lines.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Like you know, these professional readers are so wonderful. Yeah, and I'd rather work with professional readers are so wonderful.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'd rather work with a producer who finds the right voices. I love that. But, yeah, my books. You know that's one of the characteristics of what I do. You open a Jeffrey Wells book, you are going to go to strange exotic places and find out things you never knew before, because there's a pretty good chance you wouldn't have come into contact with that sort of information.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. So I love that you're bringing all of these life experiences, yet using your imagination so wonderfully as well and creatively, to create these, the books. Yeah, it's fascinating. Tell us about the third.
Speaker 1:There's one more right, there's one more, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the third one is called the Drowning Bay, which is an ecological thriller, and it's about somebody who was convicted to prison for one year and on her release she's on parole and she has to be under family care for the period where she's in parole or on parole.
Speaker 1:And so her mother's passed away and her father, with whom she lived, has moved out of the city to Long Island, to the wine country, and bought a vineyard, but the house is not ready.
Speaker 1:So she checks into an Airbnb and the hostess of the Airbnb is missing and there's a young boy, a young black boy, who's a refugee from Mozambique and through his giving away the password to her blog, he reads an unpublished blog from her saying that she's going to leave the family and she's going to do what she needs to do, even if it means she'll never see her family again, and that is, she's going to stop the development from ruining the bay and killing the eelgrass, that is the food and the environment where all the shellfish and the finfish spawn, and without that they'll be decimated. And so she said I'm going to help you, I'm going to help you find your mother, but she's on parole and if she steps out of line even slightly she'll go straight back to prison. So it's tremendous risk personally for her and they work it out and it's an adventure tracking her down.
Speaker 2:What kind of research did you have to do to have all of that knowledge for that book and maybe some of the others?
Speaker 1:You know that particular book. I had experience with oyster farming.
Speaker 1:So, in this part of the world. You know, you can sign yourself up to with a marine program through Cornell and you can farm oysters. And I learned a lot about the bay and its vulnerability and the water heating up and the algae blooms that cause the detoxification or the deoxygenation of the water, called hypoxia. Yeah, oxygenation of the water. The called hypoxia, yeah, um, and I came across a, uh, a particular type called alexandrium, which can be fatal to humans. And then, the more I looked into it, I actually what I did was I wrote to the fbi because I knew, I knew through attending a conference with the Thriller Writers Association.
Speaker 1:I did a one-day course with them and they said if you have a book and you want information on what we do, just write to us. We have a public affairs division and they will address your question. That's what I did and, to my complete amazement, they said, yeah, we'd love to help you. And I said well, is it conceivable that a bad guy could use Alexandrian? And they said guess what? Alexandrian is actually a weapon of mass destruction with the US government. It is actually classified and it's never been used, but it is so toxic that it has been potentially turned into a weapon and whether potentially meant actually. I'll never know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Hope not Actually he meant actually I'll never know. Yeah, Hope not. But yeah, so that's what the bad guys were planning, causing deliberate deaths in the wetlands and pointing to you know, all sorts of bad sanitation and that sort of thing. And it really wasn't, it was deliberate murder. And the boy and this ex-con figure it out, and so that research was through the FBI and it was through Cornell's what they call the SPAT program, and there's a lot of research in that book and it's all pretty accurate.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Well, let's give listeners maybe some tips on writing and how, maybe your top three tips that you would give somebody that's interested in becoming a writer and really putting their ideas and thoughts down onto paper, or however it works best for them, right Transcription, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Sure. Well, you know I'm a big believer in reading craft books, and one of the best that I've ever read is more about the methodology you use to develop a story, and it's written by an author by the name of Lisa Krohn C-R-O-N, who wrote a book called Story Genius, and what she explains is if you follow this procedure, you're not going to waste hundreds of thousands of words that go nowhere. You're going to have a story, and if you, you know, refine your craft and you execute it the way she recommends, it's going to be publishable. So that's tip number one. Tip number two is you've got to write almost every day. It's one of those things where you need like 14,000 hours of practice before you get good at it, and that's true with writing. The more you write, the better you get at it, and the more you hone your craft, the more concise and accurate your writing is. I'm sure you know this with the books that you've read.
Speaker 2:They've just seven. I have seven children's books. They're basically poetry, which was my, you know, easy way to express my words when I was doing it, and kind of because they're children's books, making them accessible to them, and rhyming also has such deep learning ability from you know from rhyming, and so I wanted to kind of add that for early learners and readers and make it fun for them.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I think that we really. You know, I never intended for my books to be for an audience other than my neighbors and maybe the kids at my kids or the other students at my kids' schools, because I wanted them to understand why my autistic son acted differently than they did or why my dyslexic you know other child was having a hard time excuse me in different ways than other children around them, and I think that just one of our quotes that we love to say is a little bit of knowledge will turn fear into understanding.
Speaker 2:And for children that's so important because you want them to support and to understand, because that fear comes out of confusion, of not understanding why someone is different, and so give them all the tools that you can give them early on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very true. The week before last I was speaking at a school and talking about nevertheless, and I was explaining to them why or how to get to being authentic, because that's such a buzzword you know people talk about. Oh, you know, everything you do has to be authentic, but very few definitions exist that really explain how you get to become authentic. And what I explain to the kids is that it starts with resiliency. You know, kids have to be resilient and if you consider being resilient as the enemy and run away from it, you're not going to grow. So learning to be resilient is a good thing and it leads to being more courageous, because the more you do it and the more knocks you take and the more you learn from those lessons, the better off you are. And then I say and then you've got to go to the next step. Once you have the courage, you have to build the inner home.
Speaker 1:And what is an inner home? It's like building a house, the inner home. And what is an inner home? It's like building a house. You start with the foundation and that's the plot, and then you go to the windows and the doors and those are the characters and those are the people that come in and go and look through and look around and there's the infrastructure of a house. You know the plumbing and the electricity, and that's the editing and the proofreading and the care that you take with the sentences. And it's the same with building a house. Now, a house is not a home. A home is a structure that you're emotionally attached to it. So once you decide to put all of those things that are precious to you, including your own privacy, into inner home, you will have the strength to not take drugs, to be your own person, to think independently. And when I sign the books, I always write in the book build your inner home.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's a wonderful message. I think that that's really inspiring and especially, you know, kids have um, I've gone to some schools and done some you know author things too, and the kids look up to you so much it's like you're this little mini celebrity that's there especially the younger ones.
Speaker 2:Um, but that, uh, that mentorship that you can take that role of to help kids especially I mean middle school is, like the hardest years, I think, of everyone's lifetimes Right, really important that we have wonderful stories to draw from, wonderful experiences to learn from. But also, like you said, I love that you're teaching what how to build authenticity, because, yeah, we can say it all day long, but if kids don't know how to achieve something, that there it's just this fancy word that's been thrown around, then they, then they won't grow and they won't have that success and availability to do so. Um, you would also mention that you took, uh, a class. Do you what? I think that that's a wonderful idea for people that are, you know, maybe interested. What kind of classes do you recommend for people who want to get started interested? What kind?
Speaker 1:of classes do you recommend for people who want to get started? Well, you know, some universities have classes for adults who want to write. I was listening to your podcast with Raina Genton was it. Yeah, yeah. Well, she was talking about, you know, doing classes at colleges and that sort of thing. But a lot of writers also belong to writing groups. You know where she can workshop or I can workshop my books. I actually belong to the Romance Writers of America chapter on Long Island. Now I don't write romance.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But those writers many of them are bestsellers and they're extremely experienced and they know exactly what they're doing and I've learned so much from them and they're very generous people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so you know it's just a privilege to belong to that group and um. So you know you get guidance and with me being a you know, a male writer, I can always use the guidance on how to better hone emotionally charged scenes, and that's what romance does in a very, in a very good way. So you know I've gotten a lot of value out of it.
Speaker 2:Those are some really great ways to get perspectives so that you can have a correct perspective to write from when you're writing about a character that's not like yourself. So I think, that's a great idea, and there's so many things you know. Youtube has so many videos you can watch If that is easier for you, or you know just the Internet has everything right right at your fingertips.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I think that taking advantage of all of those tools you have is is a wonderful way to start, but really having that passion within you to tell your story. There was another gentleman that you'd probably like his his show too. I think his name was Danny oh, it's right there, dang it. I'm going to have to get the last name and send it to you. But he also had said kind of at the end, like if you've written a story, it's your duty to share it with the world. It's the only perspective the world's ever going to see. Your perspective is different than anyone else's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you have an obligation to get your thinking out there, which is why you need to take your writing seriously. It's not a game, you know. It's a message and it can impact on people, and that's why I decided, after a career of doing technical work, that if I was going to say something, it better have some significance and some meaning, because I'm not going to waste my time writing frivolous nonsense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I'm going to try and write something that has some meaning.
Speaker 2:They sound amazing and a lot of value and a lot of just incredible experiences from other cultures and different areas of the world to really get your imagination going and following along. Yeah absolutely Wonderful. Well, before we go, let's tell everyone where they can go. You do have it right up here. I'm going to also put it down here at the bottom to go and get, go see your books and, of course, tell everyone else you know what platforms they can go to to find you, things like that.
Speaker 1:Sure. So that's my website on the screen, jeffreywellsfictioncom, and on that website is information on every one of my books, links to amazon, links to goodreads, um and uh. Also, for people who don't want to buy from amazon, where they can get it, uh, through apple books and other sources. So, um, all of that is there and uh. There's biographies, there's a. The school course that I teach is actually posted online as well, uh and um. And then my blogs. So I'm also writing the follow-up to nevertheless, which is those same two 12 year olds.
Speaker 1:Now they're 22 wow they've gone through college and they're in their first jobs and it's going to be another environmental thriller.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Yeah, make sure to get your notifications on so that you can stay in the loop and get notified when new things come out. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Please follow me on my author page on Amazon and you'll get notifications.
Speaker 2:Perfect. It's so nice to get to know you and have you on the show today. Wonderful topics. I'm excited for you to get these audibles out, yeah. I'm going to check these books out.
Speaker 1:Thank you for your encouragement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, right, maybe that's what we're here for. Yeah, thank you for your encouragement. Yeah, oh yeah, right, maybe that's what that's what we're here for. Give me lift each other up, right. That's how we, that's how we rise by lifting others. I love that quote and I think it's it's one of the best things ever to just bring people on, highlight everything you know that they bring, and wrap it in a nice little package.
Speaker 2:It's been a pleasure and I'm honored to be on your show. I really thank you so so much for your time today, and I can't wait to stay in touch and hear about new things that might be happening.
Speaker 1:Me too, and if you send me the video file, will post it out on on social media and I'll mention your, your blog name oh, I love that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I would love that. Thank you so much. Absolutely, have a wonderful day and we'll talk soon thank you so much, bye-bye I'll have to cut.
