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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW
🎙️ Welcome to The SJ Childs Show Podcast! 🎉
Join Sara Bradford—better known as SJ Childs—as she bridges understanding and advocacy for the neurodivergent community. This podcast shines a light on autism awareness, empowering stories, expert insights, and practical resources for parents, educators, and individuals alike.
Brought to you by The SJ Childs Global Network, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting autistic individuals and their families worldwide, this show is your weekly dose of inspiration and actionable ideas. Visit sjchilds.org to learn more about our mission, find resources, and connect with our growing community.
Catch us on platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Goodpods—or tune in Fridays at 8:30 AM EDT on the Helium Radio Network’s Life Improvement Radio (Channel 1). Together, let’s foster a brighter, more inclusive world! 🌟
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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW
Episode 275-Transformative Chiropractic Care: Enhancing Child Development and Family Well-being with Dr. Travis Arrington
Prepare to transform your understanding of chiropractic care as we welcome Dr. Travis Arrington, a pioneering chiropractor with a remarkable journey from battling addiction to mastering brain-based treatments. Discover how Dr. Arrington, alongside his wife, a dedicated marriage and family therapist, combines mental and physical healthcare into a holistic approach that’s changing lives. Learn about the neurological scans and home-based programs they use to enhance cognitive and motor skills, providing a comprehensive care plan that integrates seamlessly with mental health.
Tonal chiropractic care could be the breakthrough you’ve been seeking for your child’s behavioral challenges. Dr. Arrington explains how his specialized techniques help children transition from a state of stress and survival to one of growth and learning. Gain insights into how these methods can alleviate issues like Tourette's, bed-wetting, and hyperactivity by promoting a parasympathetic state. We emphasize the importance of family-wide support and nurturing environments in fostering a child's development, ultimately leading to a more harmonious home life.
Explore the multi-faceted approach to child development that incorporates OT, speech therapy, and ABA, amplified by chiropractic care. Discover why early intervention is crucial and learn about valuable resources to support parents, including recommended readings and workshops. We also address the often-overlooked stress experienced by parents, especially mothers, and the impact of their well-being on the entire family dynamic. Don't miss the inspiring story behind the beautiful mural painted by Dr. Arrington’s wife, symbolizing their dedication to their patients. Join us for an episode rich with insights and heartfelt moments that could be the key to unlocking your child's potential.
Welcome to the SJ Child Show, where a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. Enjoy the show, hi, and welcome to the SG Child Show. Really excited today to introduce you to Dr Travis Arrington. Is it Arrington or Arrington?
Speaker 2:Arrington, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:Arrington those last names, my guest Travis.
Speaker 2:So glad to have you here today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much Thanks for having me Excited to be on the show. Yeah, and you are here in my town, and so that's even more exciting that we can connect like this, and hopefully in person someday, then maybe too, so that'd be great. Tell us a little bit about yourself, give us an introduction and what brought you here today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm a chiropractor by trade it was kind of a second career for me and went back to school and decided to figure out some things I didn't like about chiropractic and uh, and along that journey and my own personal stuff, um found a lot of support with mental health.
Speaker 2:Um, I dealt with an addiction in the past and and found some neurological principles and a whole program that helped me kind of overcome that with chiropractic and um, some other neurology things. And then through more of that I found a whole piece on neurodevelopmental and realized gaps that I had in my own development and decided to jump into that training and so that was kind of the introduction of like shifting from like the normal neck pain, back pain model to like more of a brain-based hey, this is a bigger piece of brain development that we can actually help with looking at the nervous system. So I focus a lot on that. We see all sorts of cases in the office and then my wife is a marriage and family therapist who works in the office with us and so for people that are oftentimes a lot of our patients, see both of us, which is amazing because then they can kind of process consciously, mentally, what's going on and then see me and do more of the neurological, deeper stuff, and when they do it together like the results are incredible.
Speaker 1:So oh, I can imagine Absolutely, and I love that you guys work together. Number one that's fantastic and I, my husband and I, would work together if I could get him on screen to do a podcast, but he hasn't. He hasn't phoned up to that one yet. This is going to get to him a podcast, but he hasn't. He hasn't phoned it up to that one yet. This is going to get to him right now, but it's it's really great to be able to, you know, have that relationship where you know that you're helping others and you really. It's so rewarding when you can especially help families who are might be confused or stuck and kind of feel like they're. You know, they sometimes feel hopeless and it's really hard to help, nurture and make them feel safe in those kinds of settings. So it's really great that we have service providers like you to be able to gain some, you know some tools from to help.
Speaker 2:There's definitely a gap and I realized that it's. There's an interesting kind of play where we're relatively new office in Utah. We had our, our company, white by small being. We operated it in South Carolina for a time and then decided to move here to Utah to be closer to family and, um, have our daughter be raised close to her cousins and things like that. So, um, but you know, that connection of like getting into that community and helping people understand the difference that we can make there's definitely a need, but then bridging that gap with education has been what we're discovering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it is a big one too there is a big gap and even in, you know, podcasting I mean I'm trying to get it all out there and, you know, seize as many audiences as I can, but there's always more to learn, there's always new things to teach and share, and we're just always hopefully growing and gaining connections along the way and sharing experiences, because it's so important that we can gain so much knowledge from other people's experiences. And then, you know, sometimes even in good and bad right, Definitely yeah oh that's so nice to have you here today.
Speaker 1:Tell us what kind of a day might look like for you in your clinic.
Speaker 2:So it varies, honestly, from day to day. Typically, you know, I'm seeing people adjusting people, um, you know, on the tables we have kind of an open adjusting area where people come in, they get adjusted and we do scheduled appointments like that. Um, I have set apart times for new patients so we'll do an exam process, um, where we look at, you know, structure of the person, if there's anything interfering between the communication between the brain and the body, which we determined with some neurological scans. We use surface CMG which is basically looking at, like muscle tone, inflammation and then their ability to adapt to stress through HRP, and then on top of that we do some brain-based games of like where they're at in development, what tools they're using. And so, for a new patient, we establish that baseline of like here's the tools that this person is using to engage, interact with their environment. When we see that there's areas that they're not there yet, then we know that. You know, number one, we track it over time of like, okay, let's introduce some treatment. And then at a certain point in time we introduce some home-based programs, games and exercises called it's a program called brain blossom, but it's neuro deflective retraining basically go back and help them pick up those tools to interact with their environment. That could be primitive reflexes, could be motor tools, sensory tools, visual cognition, like whichever. Whichever ones it is that they need.
Speaker 2:But we started in a specific order. Respect the brain's hierarchy. Um, the nice thing is, like I said, it's it's done from home, so the time demand is is low, and then they're usually working with a parent or caregiver, um, to develop that relationship. And also, you know, once they pick up those tools, the amazing thing is you don't lose them. Um, you know children and adults that are struggling with anxiety or neurodivergent behaviors. Like, once you pick up that tool, the brain's incredible, like, unless there's a traumatic brain injury in the future, if you don't, actually you don't lose those tools again. Um, and so it's really like changing the trajectory of people's lives. Once you know they, they get in a place where they can, you know, pick up more tools and then have more tools to engage with their environment.
Speaker 1:So I love that you said that and I had just recently last year in fact went and had a QEEG done and in that they did reflective testing. You know I like never had done, you know it was at the clinic, and so it was like an hour's worth of all of these different reflexes that I that you take for granted, if you will, since birth, right, and you don't understand or realize that all of these types of reflexes in your body have the neurological um, uh, that's what we're looking for, I guess representation in how your body reacts and things like that. And and it was fascinating really to to go through that process. So it's very interesting, I say the least.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it is like sometimes, you know, even for myself, like when I when I got introduced to the program and I started doing some of the exercises, and then you're like, oh, why is this hard?
Speaker 2:Like, why are my arms like doing this weird thing? And then we're like, and then we're kind of like it goes away, like it will become, like it integrates, and then it's like, oh, so it just lays like more of a foundation of, like why children and adults get overwhelmed in a classroom, or why we have lots of anxiety, or why there's certain behaviors there, like one thing that we say a lot in our clinic is behavior is a window to the brain. There's no purposeless behaviors and there's no bad kids. It's just a reason that they're they're struggling to communicate or interact in an environment. And if we can lower demand and then help them you know, help come on to their level then it starts to make sense. But, you know, for people that are neurotypical or you know less on the spectrum, then it's sometimes just like well, why are they doing? You know, our logical brain gets in the way of really seeing what's actually going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and that's something I say all the time too is all behavior is communication, and understanding that communication and those children's processes to adapt that communication to their needs is where they need support. And it's not in the punishments we can find or the grounding we can do, but in the listening and not only in our, with our ears, but with our, you know, our eyes like really seeing and listening and being active listeners in our children's lives to discover what they're really trying to communicate. Because, unlike us who have our developed brains, we're working with people with undeveloped brains and in that we don't have the, the um, I guess, man, I can't talk very good today. They don't have the ability to, just, you know, make these decisions or have, you know, better impulse, control all of those things. And so what types of tools do you think you give a family let's say, somebody has a child with ADHD and they're really struggling to help their child focus what types of access to tools or resources do you provide for them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what we, what we do, is we start with this paradigm of what we call the triangle of simplicity, where we know that the brain isn't fully developed at birth. The brain moves through a trajectory of development as we grow and through that trajectory that stress impacts that growth. Right, and so when stress impacts that growth, we develop adaptations to that stress, and that could be physical stressors, chemical stressors, emotional stressors, whichever, doesn't really matter which one. They're all going to affect our physiology, like our nervous system, the same. And when the body gets stuck in like too much demand or too much input, too much stress, in like too much demand or too much input, too much stress, then what happens is like on like a cellular level, like our body actually switches into a sympathetic state, or what we call like a stressed, and like the. The example of understanding this like initial paradigm, it helps kind of the building blocks. Right, it's the foundation of like. Okay, this is, this is why.
Speaker 2:So, if your child is stuck or you as an individual are stuck in this stressed physiological state, and then, and then someone comes to you and says hey, sarah, can you go ahead and we're going to teach you how to have good manners at restaurants. I want you to sit still, put your hands in your lap and speak to the waiter kindly when he comes, and and you're in this like elevated stress state where you're just like and it's like more than likely like you're not going to be able to do that Right. It's like you don't have what we call like top-down control, Like you're down here, lower like in your emotional brainstem, because you don't have those tools. And so then it's like, well, what's going on? It's like, well, you're stuck in this stress state. It's taking you out of, like using your higher level tools dropped you down in your brain, to your brainstem, or you're also, you're just like reacting to everything. Right, and it's like, why is my child like always so active, bouncing off the walls, crashing into things, like picking at himself, like yelling and fighting and hitting inside? Well, there's so much chaos going on there. That's like number one.
Speaker 2:We just gotta shift the physiology. So the tool that we use is is initially chiropractic, so we use tonal chiropractic. It's different than I'm. I think I'm the third in the state and, with the, with the, with the specialties that I have, the only one in the state of Utah that offers this specific type of chiropractic chiropractic, but it's done worldwide. There's 80, 80 something in the United States and then there's some in Australia and Europe that practice this style with this neurodevelopmental lens, and so we're really just like looking at it from a tension on the brain and spinal cord, lowering that tension, shifting that physiologically into a more of a parasympathetic arrest, and adjust.
Speaker 2:When you're there, then they're more at ease. Then it's like well then, when you ask them to do something, they're not only like visually are they at ease, but like under, under the surface, like their, their physiology, their cellular state is actually in a place to learn and grow. The body can't be in growth mode and survival mode at the same time, and so when we switch them from that survival mode, that stress state, into a growth mode, then also now it's ready to be like okay, let's introduce more tools. And even just doing's ready to be like okay, let's introduce more tools. And even just doing that, to be honest, sarah is like is you'll see lots of things go away, like we've, we've done that initial period of care with, with children, and and also the threats go away. And it's like well, what happened? And it's like there was so much demand on their musculoskeletal system. I'm sorry I get emotional about some of these things because, like it does, it changes kids lives. That like it goes away, you know.
Speaker 2:And then we're like, okay, now let's introduce the tools where they can start picking up even more tools to engage in with their environment.
Speaker 2:And it's like, how you know, it's like this kid that's getting picked on and bullied and like the parents are like I don't know what's going on. Then all of a sudden, like they start chiropractic which the parents are like it's just neck, know what's going on. Then all of a sudden they like they start chiropractic which the parents are like it's just neck pain, back pain, and then the Tourette's go away and the bed waiting goes away and the bouncing off the wall behavior goes away and the yelling goes away. And then, and then all of a sudden, at that three month mark, it's like, okay, now we're going to introduce more tools at home to go and pick up additional, you know, primitive reflexes, sensory motor, you know movements, all these things in a specific way. And and they just get better, better, better. You know 80 to 90% improvement with just those two interventions alone. And we've got. We've got five, but those are the two big ones that it's like hey, like you can see change so that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:I mean just thank you to you for for providing those to those families.
Speaker 1:And it also goes to show the amount of education and level of um, you know, respect that you're showing for the parents and for the families, because, as you absolutely know, it's not just about the child in most cases it really has to be family-wide in the acceptance and the learning process and in the perception of how we can best serve this individual and not show up with guilt, shame, judgment, any of those things, but really show up with the intent to love and nurture and foster and create a good path of good tool belts for these kiddos to have to take with them into these situations, because not only then are they going to be able to have success in their home and their family life. And success doesn't mean not having any bad days. That's so not what it means. It just means that you are generally overall and I'm sure that it's measurable being a, you know seeing the differences and seeing the, the ease and the less, the ease of stress in your home life the ease and the less, the ease of stress in your home life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's. I mean there's there's several points of feedback that we look at, but that's definitely one of like how they how are they performing in school? You know, if they have learning challenges, if they even have reading challenges, or a reading challenge can oftentimes be problems with, like, their visual field. That's one of the things that we take into account of like hey, we can help, like help your tracking and gaze, and like we do that in our exam of like you know, are there either eyes able to fixate, follow and circadian and all these different things? And it's like, and if reading is a challenge, it's like maybe they're having a hard time like coordinating like their eye movements, and if it is, then it's like, well, yeah, like it would be hard, you know. It's like a simple example is like, well, if I, if I asked you to pound in a, you know, a four inch nail into the wall and I gave you a little plastic hammer and I said okay go pound that nail into the wall, you'd be like, oh, that's like.
Speaker 2:No, it's like it's a really hard. You know I'm gonna be frustrated. I'm gonna be like, dude, this is taking forever, like I can't't do it. I'm going to start complaining and like it's like, that's like what you're asking your kids to do or that's what you're going through life doing. And if I, and if I gave you like a big framing hammer with a waffle head on it and you went, boom, like in one strike it's in the wall. Got the framing hammer, your child's got this little tiny plastic dinky play hammer and it's like and there's, there's a, there's a gap there. You know there's. There's a difference of like the tools that you're using and so helping the mom see that they're not a bad parent, that they didn't do something wrong in the raising of that child. It's like you didn't do anything wrong, it's just reality of. It's like. Even another another phrase is like kids are wonderful observers but terrible interpreters.
Speaker 2:It's like what they observe is great, they're observable, but the way they interpret things, like they can interpret a conversation or even something on TV as stressful, and also it's enough to switch them into a stress mode for a short period of time. It's enough to switch them into a stress mode for a short period of time and maybe on that, on that journey of brain development, they miss a couple of tools because all of a sudden they're stuck in stress mode for a week or maybe a month or longer and they don't pick up those developmental tools and then they, you know, hopefully they switch back out for whatever reason and they start picking up tools again. It's like, well, why does, why does? Why does Johnny have problems? Like, like what's? Why is he different than my other kids? Like what happened? And said well, there's, there's lots of factors that play into that, of which we can get into if you want. But there's lots of genetic factors and you know different things that get passed on of why one child's more susceptible than another.
Speaker 1:But yeah, oh my gosh, I'm, believe me, after three, I have a 23 year old, 11 and a 13 year old. Knowing that everybody can have their own unique individual personality is something I definitely have now and have respect for now too. I think that in my first round of parenting I was coming in as a step parent and I think with that lens, um you really, my intention was to do the best and to give her the best opportunities and to be the best provider in the space where she wasn't with her biological mom, to be the best I could be for her. And you know, in that I didn't really learn about parenting, I just did what I thought was, but parenting was supposed to be well, guess what? Today I don't do anything like that anymore.
Speaker 2:You didn't get the package manual.
Speaker 1:Yes, right, I can now I can write the manual.
Speaker 1:Here's what not to do, but I think it's so valuable sometimes to have that information and to be able to, you know, take from that experience and to be able to lean into these two children who, you know, are much different. And our son is semi-verbal, he's autistic and he's our son is semi-verbal, he's autistic and he's oh just has an incredible photographic and auditory memory that we found out when he was very young, about three. And you know, now, today, at 13, we're learning how to have conversations with people that are appropriate. We're learning how to, you know, have our bathroom, you know, time, just more independent things like that, things that we would have been working on at maybe three. But we're working on those skills now because that's where he's at now and that's something that I think is so important for parents to really follow their children's needs there. What you know there's, there's a way to follow and still guide but not control and take with you kind of a thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. I think it's hard because there's a lot of expectation, especially with, like, the way our schooling system's set up is that like, oh, when you're in first grade, then you've got these milestones, and you're in second grade, you've got these milestones, and it's like age and grade does not determine, like neurological readiness no you know, even for more neurotypical kids, it's like there's a lot of factors that go in there that it's like it can be very helpful for the development of that child to hold them back.
Speaker 2:And it's hard as a parent because there's a lot of outside pressure and you're, you know you're in parent groups and it's like, oh well, one kid was fine and this kid's not. I just I want to get them to, you know, to the level, and it's like it's not about that. You know it's like man, the human brain is amazing. You know it's like it'll just like, it'll just like happen. And all you're like whoa, like what happened? It's like, well, they were ready. You know it's like, but what? Before they're ready and you're trying to force it. It's like it's frustrating on both ends.
Speaker 1:It really is. And you know, our family is very unique in that we've I've been lucky enough to be a stay at home mom and and really put into action all of the things that I've learned over this. You know, 13 years now on this journey with him and really learn how to follow his lead, to help what's best for him, because what's best for him isn't doesn't look like what's best for the other children in my neighborhood, and I know that for sure. Now you know, and I knew that very early on, and it's really you have to come to a point, especially you know, with your spouse, or that you are going to do things that's best for your family spouse, or that you are going to do things that's best for your family. And it's hard sometimes when you have other generations that have a different understanding of what you're might be going through a different idea, rather not even understanding. That's the problem. And so you know, learning to educate gracefully the other people in your life and learning to access resources and tools like Dr Travis, that's the things that will help you find success in your family to really give your child the life that they deserve to live.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'm so sorry, Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I, it's not, it's a multi-faceted approach, you know. I mean, there's obviously there's OT and there's speech therapy and there's ABA and there's all these different things and it's like, well, we it's like we don't claim to be the only provider that's going to fix all of your child's problems. We don't really fix any. I mean, we're here to support, obviously, but there's definitely room and place for these other professionals.
Speaker 2:And what we have found in our own office and with other providers chiropractors who do the same protocol that I do is like any of these other services are actually enhanced when we introduce the chiropractic piece, because it's like they actually work better and faster and get more result out of it. Because, again, it's going back, it's like if we can shift their physiology into that rest and recover ready to learn that growth mode, that also it's like, well, wow, ot. Also they were just kind of like hovering, and then it just went boom and it jumped and it was like, yeah, they were under two weeks of chiropractic care and that. And then you look at the time different and they're like, oh, yeah, that was like, yeah, we got them ready to take on those tools.
Speaker 1:So I love that. What would you do if maybe a family came to you with a really young child and they were questioning you know kind of if the child you know could be helped, what would you? How would you guide them through that process? I probably in your testing and things like that, they would discover what they need.
Speaker 2:Like how young are we talking?
Speaker 1:How young do you do? That's a great question to ask, I guess.
Speaker 2:I mean depending on for what they're looking to support for.
Speaker 2:So, like we see infants, um, in the office and so we can, we can start there.
Speaker 2:Obviously, some of those behavioral challenges are not going to be as a parent or you know, it's kind of well, like.
Speaker 2:But again the same principle applies, is that I mean the birth process is a parent or you know it's kind of well, but again the same principle applies, is that I mean the birth process is a stressful experience, you know, regardless of how you born, or C-section or traditional or whatever, like it's it's a stressful experience on the baby and on the mom, um, and so, like making sure that the communication of that baby, the communication is clear between the brain and the body, like that's the first step of like, okay, let's, let's set them up for success, that they're in a growth state, right, and and then they're going to have the best chance of picking up the most developmental tools.
Speaker 2:So after they get, usually with, like, the neural deflective retraining, the brain blossom program, at that point it's I mean there could be three there's going to be some limitations because their brain's not to the point to develop all those tools, you know, but we've got five-year-olds, four-year-olds on the program and it's great so fantastic when you send them home and kind of, what do you give to the parents?
Speaker 1:Are there like handouts or is there? Do you have like a website you send them to? What type of resources do you send when you send them home? Um like after the yeah, like after your, your appointments and things like that, because it's so important that people implement anything that they learn. Hopefully they're implementing things in their home as well. You know to a point, obviously, that they can.
Speaker 2:We recommend. I mean I, I make a fair amount of social media content. It's on different subjects. I go through waves of focusing more on neurodevelopmental stuff and then other chiropractic pieces, so that's helpful. We do offer a workshop for free in the office, typically every other month, so they can come to that workshop and even as a refresher, because there's going to be different things you pick up on and different things. That I say depending on.
Speaker 2:And then the whole brainchild is a book that we recommend to most parents. If they haven't read that, that's one that we definitely recommend that they reach. It's just to get that perspective um.
Speaker 1:I love that, the whole brain child.
Speaker 2:No, I'm interested about that yeah, yeah, so that's follows a lot of um, I guess, the parenting style that we that we recommend, um, there's a workbook that goes with it so you can just kind of help, such as an at-home support.
Speaker 2:Again, it's a workbook that goes with it so you can just kind of help, such as an at-home support. Again. It's a lot of these things. We obviously provide awareness in the office of what's going on if people come to us with different things and we can talk through, like here's a right now strategy to deal with xyz. Um, but as far as, like you know, tools when they go home or the process of making a few things, that's great. We've got a workbook that's in the pipeline that we're working on to be able to send home for moms too, because the reality of it is it's like you know, we talked about the kids and it's like, well, don't forget about mom and dad, and usually mom takes on the stress of the whole family and like, if she gets the scan done, there's a lot of times a mom scan is worse than the kids.
Speaker 2:I believe that Like seriously, like I'm like I'm usually not too surprised at this point where I'm like, yeah, like your kid's scan is bad and your scan is going to be twice as bad. It's like and you're holding it all together, but like let's not forget about the anxiety that you're dealing with and all the other. You know, like you said, the shame and the guilt of like everything that's built on and it's like like your system's running hot too, like you're in this survival mode and then the way like the energy of the home like it gets picked up, you know, it's like we see we've got a handful of families that their whole family's under care and like just it's better when everyone's like shifting from like oh, everyone's shifting into more, like a, you know, a more relaxed state to be able to handle more stressors.
Speaker 1:So and you know I haven't been to see you personally and or my family, but in saying that, just kind of a parallel thinking that we, when we all found out that we were on the spectrum I was the last one to find out last May and that, qed, when we all found that all of these things out it was, it felt like it relieved stress in our family. It felt like it gave us a different perspective to be able to see one another for maybe a little bit more. Like you know who. We felt we were inside and I was able to then kind of see the habits that this husband I've loved for 20 years now, you know, has.
Speaker 1:That may have driven me crazy a few times, but that my son has those same habits and now I'm like, okay, well, that that can be accommodated and that can be considered, um, and it's really just made our family, I feel, stress free and it's not to say we don't have challenges and our kids, um, are obviously preteens and teens.
Speaker 1:So we're going to have those things, days that are not going to be fun, but for the most part we don't have like stress in our home and I remember what it was like to have stress in my home every day, every day, and communication that consisted of yelling, and you know it just. It's like I've never been so less anxious in my life that I have in, like maybe the last five years, when I've let go of all the expectations that my parents or my neighbors or my kids teachers at school or anybody else. I've let go of all of those things and decided that the success in my family happens in the walls of my home and that's where the acceptance needs to be. And so since that has happened, I mean like we have crazy sleep schedules, it's okay, everybody is healthy and happy and no one's ever in trouble or fighting or yelling, and it's just like I don't know. It's very successful, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean that's amazing. It definitely takes time to like get to that point. Yeah, Most people don't have the awareness for a while that it takes to understand your own stuff and then be accepting of other people's stuff. Like that takes a lot of self-awareness, for sure.
Speaker 1:It does, and I think that you're really helping people to start that journey, to have a different perspective and to view what they may see as challenges as really just a part of the way life is. And here's how we see the positive side of that. Here's how we enhance these things, these qualities, and decrease the stress. So thank you so much for the work you're doing. Decrease the stress. So thank you so much for the work you're doing, thank you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Tell us where we can go and find you so we can support all of this good business. So website's probably the easiest. So it's whitebisonwellbeingcom is our website and you have all of our information on there. Like I said, we're in Sandy, utah, so we're just off of 13th East South side of Fort Union, so off of of the 215 belt route. So if you guys are in utah, and that's a unique name.
Speaker 2:Tell me you gotta have a story behind that there is a story um, yeah, so bison is is amer America's national mammal. Some people don't know that, but so it's kind of a patriotic piece. But instinctually, bison, when a storm comes into like the plains, cows will turn and run or huddle up and stay stuck and bison will actually charge into the storm. They have this instinct that they'll see a storm coming and they'll literally just like band together and charge into the storm. Um, they have this instinct that they'll see a storm coming and they'll literally just like band together and charge into the storm. And the reason why they do that is by like running into it they actually get through the storm faster to like grass and pastures and things like that. And so that's kind of the metaphor that we use of like face your storm, move through the hard things because everybody has moved through the hard things in your life and then find the abundance and goodness on the other side.
Speaker 1:So Bravo, I love that. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad I asked, I'm so glad. No, that's fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing and that's great advice for all of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty fun. We've got like a 20 foot by 50 foot mural in our office that kind of depicts that whole scene that my wife painted.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely going to be stopping by, if not to just see the art piece. Fantastic. It's been such a pleasure to get to know you today. Thank you so much for your time and thanks for what you're doing to help families.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Well, I will definitely be in touch.
Speaker 2:Awesome, sounds good. Thank you, sarah.
