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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
🎙️ Welcome to The SJ Childs Show Podcast! 🎉
Join Sara Bradford—better known as SJ Childs—as she bridges understanding and advocacy for the neurodivergent community. This podcast shines a light on autism awareness, empowering stories, expert insights, and practical resources for parents, educators, and individuals alike.
Brought to you by The SJ Childs Global Network, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting autistic individuals and their families worldwide, this show is your weekly dose of inspiration and actionable ideas. Visit sjchilds.org to learn more about our mission, find resources, and connect with our growing community.
Catch us on platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Goodpods—or tune in Fridays at 8:30 AM EDT on the Helium Radio Network’s Life Improvement Radio (Channel 1). Together, let’s foster a brighter, more inclusive world! 🌟
Go here to download training materials!
https://sjchilds.myshopify.com/
THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
BONUS EPISODE-Finding Your Voice in Faith and Autism for the Summit-with Ron Sandison
What does authentic autism advocacy look like when powered by faith? Ron Sandison offers a compelling answer in this thought-provoking conversation from the International Autism Summit. As a mental health professional speaking to over 30,000 people annually across 70 events worldwide, Ron brings a unique perspective shaped by his extraordinary gift—15,000 scriptures memorized word-perfect—and his journey as one of only two openly autistic licensed ministers in the Assemblies of God's 114-year history.
Ron takes us behind the pages of his new book, "Adulting on the Spectrum," revealing the critical connection challenges autistic individuals face. "Most of us are like old, 30-year-old Velcro shoes—we don't connect well," he explains, before outlining his three-part framework for building meaningful relationships through mentoring, marketing, and the ability to delight others. Through powerful stories and accessible metaphors, Ron demonstrates how identifying personal strengths while accommodating limitations can transform an autistic person's relationship with both the world and themselves.
The conversation tackles persistent misconceptions head-on, particularly the damaging assertion that autism can be "outgrown." Ron eloquently describes how autism's manifestation evolves from childhood meltdowns to adult "neuro-crashes," emphasizing that sensory challenges persist regardless of outward appearance or public speaking abilities. His vision for truly inclusive faith communities goes beyond token participation, advocating for autistic voices in leadership positions where they can influence institutional change. Most powerfully, Ron introduces his concept of developing a "hope complex" through spiritual connection, offering neurodivergent individuals an antidote to the "hopeless complex" that often accompanies autism's social and employment challenges. Whether you're autistic, support someone who is, or simply want to understand neurodiversity through a spiritual lens, Ron's insights will transform your perspective on advocacy, faith, and human potential.
Hi and thank you for joining us here at the second annual International Autism Summit. Today we are doing a pre-recorded interview with one of our favorite, favorite friends and advocates, ron Sanderson. Ron, thank you so much for agreeing to pre-record this panel message for us so that we could include you in the summit this year.
Speaker 2:message for us so that we could include you in the summit this year. Well, thanks so much for having me. I just wish I could be in Utah, where it's nice and warm Michigan's kind of cold still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is getting to be real nice. This week It'll be in the 70s, so looking forward to that for sure. Well, I'm so excited to have you and I want to first give you a huge thank you, because you have donated your new book to our auction or silent auction, and so I hope everybody's going over and bidding to get their copy of Adulting on the Spectrum. I'm really, really excited to get into this book and I can't wait to hear the feedback from everyone. So before we get, just jump into these questions. For everyone that hasn't heard of you or doesn't know who you are, give us a little introduction and then we'll jump into these.
Speaker 2:So I'm a mental health worker. I speak at 70 events a year on autism. 30,000 people just got back from speaking in New York, kansas, tulsa and Missouri and I speak all around the world on autism and I have four traditionally published books and one of the things I'm doing now is I have the Honey Badger Verse of the Day and you can go on Instagram to see the videos or on YouTube. I average about 5,000 views a week and I have a unique gift 15,000 scriptures memorized word perfect, including 22 books in New Testament.
Speaker 1:That's incredible, ron. I'm sure people wonder how in the world did you get to memorize all of those scriptures? But just practice and passion.
Speaker 2:Temple Grandin said it best Talent attracts mentors. In my junior year of high school I memorized 2,000 Bible verses and the person who had the most in the world memorized at the time, dr Jack Van Impey 15,000. He had an open house and when I met him he found out I had a bunch of verses memorized at age 18, like a baton he got. He quoted 50 verses. I gave him word reference on them and he said you have a talent, I'm going to help you refine it. And from him I learned how to actually memorize efficiently. Where you put them on note cards, you memorize by subject and you go over them once a month, each verse and the ones you've had memorized for a long time once every two months, and then they'll stick forever.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, ron. We're so proud of you for that. And what an amazing talent and thank goodness you had such a cool mentor to help you. You know polish it and narrow it down and everything. That's great. Well, you know you mentioned you memorize over 15,000 scriptures and you've authored several books too. How has your faith shaped your autism advocacy in your daily life?
Speaker 2:So I think the way my faith has shaped my advocacy is that we have a great advocate in Christ and he teaches us how to advocate. In fact, he used a parable in Luke 18, 1 through 6, about the unjust judge and the widow who kept coming to grant me justice against my adversary, and I think that we can learn from that. The actual Greek word there for coming is chepes, and it's a raw, steel individual, like a honey badger, who keeps coming and doesn't give up. And I think, as people on the spectrum, we need to advocate and advocate until we get our accommodation and we should never give up in advocacy because it takes a while for there to be change.
Speaker 2:My senior year of high school, they wouldn't let people past the age limit compete in non-contact sports in high school and I had to go all the way to Cincinnati courts and challenge the rule of the Michigan High School Athletic Association. I won my case. Later on it became a present setting case. So people with autism and other disabilities who are in a non-contact sport like track or cross country are able to compete past the age limit. And I think that we need to have that Chavez attitude steel, raw individual. We keep coming and we don't give up.
Speaker 1:I love that Wonderful answer on that one. I love that I have your new book here, adulting on the Spectrum. Everybody who hasn't got a copy go over to the auction, bid on your copy and get yourself this copy. You share personal insights and lessons from your own journeys. What's one thing you hope that every young person hears from your book?
Speaker 2:The one thing I want everyone to realize on the autism spectrum and this will help you connect Most of us are like old, 30-year-old Velcro shoes we don't connect well Is this we learn to take our strengths and adapt and accommodate for our limitations. We build connections. When I was in college I went to college with a guy and his name was Ryan Tatter and he had one dream to influence the world with music. He knew his strength was music. He knew his limitation was he only had a Yamaha keyboard. It was from Kmart, it was $50. So he didn't have great equipment and there wasn't social media, so a lot of people didn't hear of his music. So he didn't have great equipment and there wasn't social media, so a lot of people didn't hear of his music. So what he did was this he looked for connections. He realized that in Tulsa, every corner you have a megachurch. So he went there to these megachurchs that said I'd love to do concerts and use your equipment and be able to record. And he ended up being able to do concerts and record on DVDs and CDs his music. And then, when he graduated with his marketing degree, he went where he knew his gift was needed and that was Tennessee and, as preparation mean, opportunity would have it, mtv showed up at the hotel where he got a job and he turned in his DVD, won Battle of the Bands and the rest is history. Won Republic. He wrote the song We'll Be Counting Stars, halo and many others and just the one song, fiancee's Song, made over 4.5 million.
Speaker 2:But people with autism, we don't know how to find those connections. We don't know how to adapt to our environment using our strengths and overcome our limitations. My book, adulting on the Spectrum, will teach people how to do that and then they won't be like 30-year-old Velcro shoes be able to connect. And then connection has three parts mentoring and support team has three parts mentoring and support team, marketing and then, finally, ability to delight. People with autism a lot of times have difficulty filtering, make it difficult to have the ability to delight. And by learning those skills the skies are the limits. If you shoot for the stars and you miss, you just might moon someone and hit the moon. And that's what my book is going to teach you is how to develop those skills, how to see connections and how to make those connections in the job opportunities into relationship opportunities, into opportunities to impact your world.
Speaker 1:I love that you know you had said that you speak at over 70 events a year. Congratulations on that, by the way. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Is there any?
Speaker 1:reoccurring questions or misconceptions that come up that you often hear and want to talk about today.
Speaker 2:Yes, one of the ones that really comes up a lot is you don't look autistic.
Speaker 2:I just had that happen when I spoke to 250 people at the largest church, in UMC Church in the United States, resurrection Church, and I always respond this way. My mom said this when I was seven years old and someone said in the congregation you don't look autistic, I'd love for him to have a full blown meltdown. And you say he doesn't look autistic. And even this day I still have autistic moments. Easter we were going to a brunch. The place we went to brunch had probably 300 people in there and I was sensory overwhelmed and the sensory overwhelm makes me very difficult being able to adapt to my environment.
Speaker 2:And even though I speak to large audiences, it's something different when people are banging into you with plates filled with steak or salmon that smells like high heaven and I think that it's a misconception. Is that when we get older we lose autism and that you outgrow autism. That's another thing. You must have outgrown autism. Be speaking with big white sign in a large church. I don't outgrow autism.
Speaker 2:It just affects me differently as I get older and it affects me less with meltdowns and more with neuro-overwhelm and then neuro-crashes. What I mean neuro-crashes they're different than meltdowns when you're an adult. When I was a kid, if I was in that environment I would have been screaming. That whole buffet would have been going up in the air. But now what happens is when I get home from that event, I have neuro crash and I just lose all my energy and I just go to bed early. So I think that autism changes as we get older and people don't always realize it, and also that kids with autism they're going to grow up to be adults with autism and people don't talk about that and that needs to be a subject. And again, adulting on the spectrum realize that there's adults on the spectrum. I can't it went out for a second.
Speaker 1:I know Darn it Technical things for a second. I know, darn it Technical things, right? Yeah, oh, that's to be expected. We just roll with the punches here. But no, I like how you said that and I think that you're right about. You have to re, you refine yourself as you grow, whether you're typical or autistic, you know you refine yourself, you refine your skills, you refine your autistic um challenges or you know your support, like you're able to get more supports or less if you're an adult and you're non-speaking. That must be tricky, but you know. You know there's just so much to still be understood and to be advocated for and I love that. Now you know. I think a big question in the community is because there are so many churches. How can churches and communities become more inclusive for autistic individuals and their families?
Speaker 2:So here's how Inclusion is getting people in the door. Diversity is having people with different neurological ways of interpreting, and belonging means they have a voice at the table, and I think that one of the most important things we can do is help people with autism have a voice at the table. And I think that one of the most important things we can do is help people with autism have a voice at the table and in fact, when they're in places of leadership, they're actually making decisions. And it can start out small inclusion and that could be having someone with autism read the daily prayers that are for the church or read the scripture for the day, and then it can move up to a position where they're actually over people and helping them, maybe as a youth pastor, maybe as a youth volunteer working in the Sunday school program. But until they have a voice at the table, we're just acting like they're actually included.
Speaker 2:And I look at the Assemblies of God. I just got licensed in the Assemblies of God last November and I'm the first licensed Assemblies of God minister. Now there's two. There's one in England too, a female who's on the spectrum, but the history is 114 years and we know that now one in every 31 people is diagnosed with autism, so that's about 5%. Then why have 38,000 people? Why are there only two that the Assemblies of God are acknowledging as being on the autism spectrum who are actually saying they're on the autism spectrum? Statistically, it should be hundreds if there's 38,000 licensed and ordained ministers in the Assemblies of God. But I think that once we get our voice heard, once we get in those positions where we're able to influence the church, things are going to change.
Speaker 1:I love that. I hope so, I really do, and I think that you're doing wonderful work and I'm really grateful that you and this other woman in England are, you know, heading kind of pioneering the leadership role in this, and more to come, more to come for sure. Look up to you, you know, as I'm sure many young autistics do, and say I'm gonna, I'm gonna shoot for the stars, just like Ron Sanderson, you know, with your background, how do you see the intersection of spiritual support and mental health playing a role for neurodivergent individuals in the community?
Speaker 2:So, I see it this way is that 80% of people with autism suffer from anxiety or mental health issues and if we can get a place where we develop a hope complex, we can change that. A lot of people with autism, due to bullying, communication struggles, relationship struggles, chronic underemployment or unemployment, have experienced a hopeless complex. If we can develop a spirituality where we connect with Christ, where we connect with God and we use our talents, then we're going to develop self-efficiency and that's the belief that if I begin something I'm able to carry on to completion. That's what the hope complex is it's self-realization. I like sharing this story.
Speaker 2:There's a shepherd he's a good shepherd Takes his sheep to green pastures and waters them every day. One day he hears an unusual sound. It sounds like this. So he goes and investigates and he finds a little lion cub whose mom was killed by a poacher. He starts raising the lion cub with the sheep and it becomes skittish like a sheep. It actually thinks it's a sheep.
Speaker 2:Four years goes by Now the lion cub who thinks he's a sheep becomes a lion who thinks he's a sheep. And one day the shepherd's taking a noonday nap, hears a scuffle, sees a lion coming upon the flock. The lion, who thinks he's a sheep is running, the sheep are running. He bats the lion over the head and later in the day he takes the lion who thinks he's a sheep and the sheep to a pond to get water to drink. And the lion who thinks he's a sheep sees his reflection, he realizes true identity. He's a king of the jungle and it was pretty bad for those sheep after that and a lot of times with autism, with spirituality, with mental health, we are kind of sheepish. We don't realize our gifts, our talent, and that we can connect with a living God and use our gifts and develop self-efficiency and do amazing things. And that's one of the things I want to help is spirituality, mental health and that hope complex. In fact, that's what my fifth book is going to be on developing a hope complex, proactive approach to mental health.
Speaker 1:I love that, ron. That's really, really important for our youth and our society today. I think that's going to be a really big, big book to come out and really help hundreds, thousands of people. What's been so great to catch up with you and it's so fun to be able to watch probably for both of us how much you have grown over the years and see each other's. You know, different summits and events and books coming out, and so I'm just so glad to share this space on this journey with you and have you here with me today, and we'll get you to Salt Lake soon enough, I promise you yeah.
Speaker 2:I've already been to the Salt Lake and on the Dead Sea and I'd love to see the Salt Lake in Utah and floating on the water.
Speaker 1:That's right. It is very interesting. It's an interesting experience, that's for sure. Well, gosh, it's been so much fun to meet with you today. Thanks again for your time and really thank you from me and the whole community for the value, the work, the authenticity you bring. I'm just so proud and honored to be your friend, to have you here and just to share your message with everyone for the International Autism Summit this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks so much for having me and remember the Honey Badger Versa Day on Instagram and YouTube. Get inspired today, get an impact, powerful word and subscribe. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1:Love that, Ron. Thank you.
