Episode 343-From Late Diagnosis To Lyrical Healing With Australian Poet Nadine Ellis

What if the words you needed were waiting inside the moments you try to rush past? We sit down with Australian poet and radiographer Nadine Ellis to explore late autism diagnosis, the quiet injuries of daily life, and the craft of turning hard feelings into language that heals. Nadine was diagnosed at 58, alongside her daughters and husband, and that clarity reframed decades of masking, missed cues, and misplaced shame. Instead of pathologizing sensitivity, she treats it as guidance—and her poems channel that signal into lines that land with precision.

Across our conversation, we map the practical tools that helped her build resilience: journaling as a pressure valve and memory archive, compact poetry that cuts through noise for a dyslexic mind, and the steady discipline of noticing. We talk about creating a home where each person’s decompression needs are honored, and how shared understanding replaces friction with ease. Nadine’s perspective is generous and grounded: you don’t need to be a “writer” to express yourself. If words aren’t your medium, paint, stitch, cook, garden, sing, or use voice-to-text. The point is contact, not perfection.

You’ll also hear two live readings from her collection The Gray Between: Caustic Comments, a searing piece about the long echo of a teacher’s cruelty and the alchemy of reclaiming it, and Solitary Confinement, a tender meditation on laundry, motherhood, and the sweetness packed into small domestic rituals. Each poem shows how everyday micro-traumas and quiet joys shape identity—and how art can metabolize both into strength.

If you’re navigating neurodivergence, seeking healthier boundaries, or just craving a way to make sense of what you feel, this conversation offers language, validation, and tangible next steps. Check out Nadine’s work on Amazon, visit nadineellis.com for poems and interviews, and follow @nadineellispoetry on Instagram for new pieces. If this resonated, share it with a friend, subscribe for more thoughtful conversations, and leave a review so others can find the show.

Chapters

• 0:01 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 0:54 Nadine’s Late Autism Diagnosis
• 2:16 Poetry, Trauma, And Everyday Life
• 5:04 Many Ways To Create And Express
• 9:00 Writing As Therapy And Dyslexia
• 12:01 Journaling, Perspective, And Resilience
• 14:56 Moving Through Hard Moments
• 16:53 Family Diagnoses And Understanding
• 21:08 Boundaries, Sensitivity, And Grace
• 23:08 Teaching Acceptance And Social Cues
• 24:28 Books, Website, And Instagram
• 26:59 Poetry Reading: Caustic Comments
• 29:58 Poetry Reading: Solitary Confinement
• 31:35 Closing Thanks And Future Plans

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Hi, welcome to the SJ Child Show. So great to have you back. If you are a listener or a viewer, thank you for being here. I, you know, it's wonderful to come together as a community, and I appreciate you coming to listen to my next guests. I'm excited and you know, I like to say that my Australian friends are my future, future tellers, you know, they're our friends in the future. Um, so it's it's wonderful to have you here today, Nadine. Thank you so much. And over all of the time scheduling, all the fun things we get to do, um, finally we get to make it here to really just have this wonderful conversation. So please introduce yourself. Let us know a little about yourself today.

SPEAKER_03: 0:54

Oh, thank you for having me, Sarah. Um, I am Nadine. Um, I am a late diagnosed autistic person. Uh so I was 58 uh when I was first diagnosed, so that's been a couple of years now. I'm now 60. I'm an Australian poet. I'm based in South Australia. I am a mother of four daughters. Two of those are actually autistic as well. Um, and I'm a radiographer by trade, uh recently retired university academic, so I was teaching into medical radiations for the last 12 years.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31

Uh but now I've gone back to clinical um X-ray taking, which is um my passion, so that's uh nice to sort of have a change back to where I basically started. Uh just had my first poetry collection released, uh, it was July last year now, so uh that's been um an enjoyable time for me where some a passion of mine as far as writing goes, uh it's been nice to sort of see that sort of culminate in an actual book. And I've just finished writing my second book, so hopefully that will be um out in the market sometime this year. So, and and my writing itself, I mainly focus on everyday life, so it's like the trauma in everyday life that we all experience, and obviously it has that sort of over um arching sort of my neurodivergence sort of there, but not not necessarily obvious, I think, because we all have trauma in everyday life to some extent, but my um overarching themes that I basically write about um branch from sort of love, loss, grief, betrayal, acceptance, perseverance. So these are themes that we all we all sort of bump and grind against in our lives. And it's just basically I I have relied on writing all my life. Um, I was quite non-verbal when I was young. So for me, it was really difficult to express what I was feeling. Um, and I am very emotive, but I like I said, I had difficulty sort of expressing that. So for the first few years of my life, I actually didn't speak at all and really didn't start speaking until I was at school. And still I I found writing was the way that I could communicate and experience what I was experiencing, but when I put it onto paper, I could look at things objectively and understand where I fit in. And often things that were occurring to me, like the trauma that I was experiencing, it gave me a sense of um perspective, and I could say, well, okay, it's not because of who I am, it's just that I'm either reacting to people or people are doing things that I don't like, but it gave me uh an ability to sort of process what was occurring, so it became therapy for me in a sense. So I always sort of leaned on my writing, and it wasn't that I set out to be a poet, I just developed this sort of skill set the more I practiced it and eventually did get some formal training as I got older, um, and found that what I was writing became very poetic, and um just yeah, it this is who I am.

SPEAKER_00: 4:40

So yeah, but oh it's so great to have you here, and I love when a guest comes and I can truly say, wow, I resonate with so much of that because I I I don't know about the I think that I was an over um hyperlexic over speaker when I was younger. I was that kid of only child. And so, you know, maybe that's the the case. I don't know, but I also was loved, loved words of writing and poetry and was an early child writer, you know, and writing just um really helped me to wow, now that I see that, also deal with all of those traumas. And I love how you said, you know, everyday traumas, because I don't think that that's something we look at or talk about. We talk about these big traumatic experiences that happen and things, but yes, what about the everyday things that really can add up possibly to a burnout, a meltdown, things that um that we have to take care of eventually. But oh, I think that that's fascinating. And through writing, it's so nice. There's so many different expressions. Um, and I love that maybe in this generation now there's so many different ways to form those expressions. You can do textual writing through your phone if you, you know, maybe dyslexic or have a physical uh you know difference that you can't physically write. I just won't I love that there's different ways to do it, and I always want to like express that to my listeners and that you know, there's not just one way you can write something down or take notes or journal. There's just it's so you can do it in music and in there's just so many ways, but I also love poetry. And when I sought out writing children's books, it just came out poetically, right? It just came out as a poem, and that that was the way it was. So I I think that we think a lot of a lot like alike that way, and um yeah, that's really fascinating.

SPEAKER_03: 7:16

No, I was just sorry. No, you go ahead. You're you're great. Um, I think also if if anyone's listening and they're thinking, oh yeah, but I don't write or I don't think that way, that's okay too, because there's other ways to express yourself. And I think sometimes you just need to hear that it's not like you're planning to be a writer or published writer or published poet, but you might like painting or you know, uh getting out your handicrafts, sewing, um, knitting, crocheting, cooking, or even dabbling in the garden and sort of watching your flowers grow or growing your vegetables. I mean, these are all moments that give you that sort of joy, but the ability to hone in on what gives you peace and comfort and a sense of creativity. And I think those things are really important. So if anyone's listening, it it you know, you don't have to be this proficient person at something. It's just we all have an ability within ourselves, and it's making that sort of connection and understanding, well, that gives me joy. I can sort of sit quietly with this and express myself, and I think that's really important, and that sort of gives us that ability to grow and sort of to be settled within ourselves and peaceful.

SPEAKER_00: 8:40

So do you think that you've been able to always have peace when you're writing, or is it now something that you can kind of understand that it is just like after you're done, it's like this relief or you know, this expression or sometimes exhaustion, right? When you have so much in your mind and then you finally get it out. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 9:07

So for me, it I think it's always been something that I kind of felt kept me sane. Um, I mean, I now I obviously can recognize that yes, it it is a form of therapy, yes, it works for me, it keeps me peaceful, it gets all my thoughts out of my brain, so I have room for other things to get in there, um, so forth and so forth. But at the time when I was young and experiencing things, I just felt like I had no one to actually express myself to. And I'm, you know, I probably did have people, but I felt like I didn't. And I think that's that was an important sort of difference for me. And so writing or just the ability to get words out on a page made all the difference for me, and um, like English is not my first language, so I had that difficulty as well, and I am dyslexic as well. So again, I had that difficulty and that challenge of reading. Um, but I always found when it came to reading poetry, it was it was still challenging, but it was easier in a sense because it was so compact, and the essence of what the author was trying to say was there, and I didn't have to wade through all these extra words, I could sort of just get straight to that emotion and and reflect that. And I think that that was uh a connection that I'm probably made quite early at a subconscious level, and obviously now when I'm older, I I can just do it for various reasons. Like I'm either working something through my head, or I've happened to hear a lovely conversation someone might be having, or there's interesting words that I might have heard or read, and so I'll jot these down in a journal. Um, and then later when I want to sit down and actually put something together, I've got journals and journals that I can draw on material and write things down. And I think the the the nice thing about documenting one's life is that like I mentioned, it helps you process things, but I think it also gives you that sense of um basically lost my train of thought here now. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 11:28

Uh tracking like tracking your life, yeah, really.

SPEAKER_03: 11:32

It's like I think it gives you that sense of appreciation too. I mean, yeah, we've all had bad things happen to us, but you need the bad things to be able to appreciate the good things because if we're always surrounded by beauty, you just take it for granted, and I think it's just part of life, you know. Yeah, we don't like it when things happen to us, but it is something that we all must live with at some point, and it's how you sort of process that and get through that that sort of makes the difference, and I think that's where my resilience as a person has flourished because I've had that ability to sort of document things to help me process that, and that's obviously my neurodivergence that's also needed that sort of ability to sort of get those emotions out of my head, but also to then go, well, that was a really good moment in my life, and when I was in this bad moment, um I recognized that, and then I sort of made that decision to move through it. And I think it's that moving through that builds that resilience for us all. Um yes, we can feel sad in the moment, we can be angry in the moment, we can process what's going on or seek forgiveness or want to give forgiveness or whatever, but it's the we don't have to stay in that moment, and I think that's the thing that a lot of people don't recognise that when they are going through awful things, it's just a brief portion of our life, and I think it's important to realize that there is light at the end of the tunnel most of the time, and it's that ability to sort of get through it, but you know uh sometimes things feel like they're always coming back to kick us up the butt. But I think it it's the ability to recognize that tomorrow's a new day, we can start afresh, we have the ability to not empower people to hurt us. We have the ability to move through that, and I think for me the writing aspect has helped solidify that knowledge that this is just momentary, uh, I will get through it. And for me, it's always been about being present in in the now, but mindful to keep moving, keep keep pushing forward, and I think that often helps us in the bad times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:09

What does and feel free to share or say now? I'm not gonna do that, but excuse me, what does your relationship now that you have a late diagnosis maybe with um any of your children? Does that look like uh different or supportive? And how do you feel that that changed any relationship?

SPEAKER_03: 14:35

It was it was really interesting because um, like I said, I was 58 when I was first diagnosed, but it actually came about. Um I have four adult children now, and it was my youngest um who basically around the same time, so it's only been a few years, she she's now 20, going to be 21 this year. So she was just finishing off her um last years of high school and basically said, Mum, I think I'm die, you know, I'm autistic, because she had made a few friends that were autistic, and they were saying, you know, you you you're like us, and all this sort of stuff. And so she basically did some deep diving, did some research, realized that she was ticking all the boxes as far as the sort of the symptoms and and basically broached it with us and said, This is what I need, I need to be diagnosed. And because she was um she just missed that sort of public system um uh in Australia, the the ability to be publicly um diagnosed. We had to actually do it privately, so it cost a bit of money, but it was money well spent because it did come up with a diagnosis for her. And then while we were in the interviews, we know we were sitting there for like three hours um while she was being diagnosed. I'm sitting there going, that's me, that's me. You know, it's like I do that, I do that, and I thought, hang on, I think I'm autistic. Um so then I had I booked in and and had the official um diagnosis done as well. And then my eldest daughter, I'm thinking, oh, look, we've just had all this done, you know. I think you need to go get diagnosed, and so we all it was like bang, bang, bang, bang. And then my my um now husband, he also got diagnosed, and it turns out we're all autistic, yeah. So it was like that wow moment, it doesn't change anything, but it sort of gave us this sense of peace and understanding, you know, and we suddenly realized that we had formed this little well marrying with my second husband. I had realized I'd formed this little um unit of uh what's the word I'm trying to say, um comfort, you know, it was my safe place. So home, like my my youngest still lives with us, so it's just the three of us now. But we're this little unit that when we all come home, we all know we have slightly different things that we need to do to decompress. But we're also understanding, we we understand that that's that's your thing, that's my thing, that's their thing, and you know, and and it's just this lovely place to come home at the end of the day and sit quietly with each other or watch TV or you know, chat about the day. But we have this better understanding and we accommodate accordingly. And it makes such a difference, it really does. And and even for my uh my oldest daughter, now that she knows that where she fits in that sort of spectrum, it's given her a sense of calm and peace as well, and all the sisters now uh understand why we do things we do, you know. And I think that it it it it it is helpful, it is, and like I said, it doesn't really change anything. We still are who we are, but it gives us that sort of understanding of where we fit in and why we think the way we do, and I can really unspeak for myself, but why I don't have the energy levels that that I see other people seem to have, or why I don't understand some things, or I miss those social cues, or when someone says something, I'm taking them at face value, or I'm literally taking them word for word when they're meaning something else, and it's like that can be as you can appreciate, so confusing when you're sort of trying to fit in and you don't, and you know you don't, but you don't know why. Yeah, and I think a lot of the time trying to sort of mask and have that appearance of, yeah, I'm fine, I can fit in, but you know you don't, and I think that that formal diagnosis make will made the difference for all of us, so and I think it's a lot of people out there who are not formally diagnosed but have a good sense of that they're on the spectrum. So I think the more we talk about it and the more it becomes less stigmatized, the better it is because it it's real, it's a very real thing, and it's out there and there's a lot of us, yeah, but it gives me the sense of community now, and I don't feel like I'm antisocial if I um don't want to go out to an event. I just know it's me, and I need I need my myself times, otherwise I'm just gonna melt down and and I have that understanding now of why I do the things I do. So yeah, it was really good. So like I said, it it was very late in our life. Well for me and for my husband, for my eldest daughter, a a later diagnosis. But for my younger one, I think she she had a a better opportunity to now uh assimilate into society, knowing where she fits in. She's very um what's the word confident in her abilities now. She's she sort of still has like speech pathology sort of um sort of sessions and things like that to help her with her um social interactions, but that's building a very confident young lady now, which is great to see. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very much let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_00: 20:47

Oh no, that's exactly what we need to be doing, and and so much of your story. Um, you know, I also our family is also all diagnosed, and support we can give one another, the accommodations, the sleep pattern, you know, who cares? Nobody bats and I or whatever. It's just so nice because um it is different and it is something that maybe we were grown uh raised to see that you know may not have been right or a wrong way to live or whatever that may be, that's not the case. Like we are in this opportunity era um experience of doing things our own way and doing things that feel right to us and work right for our families, and you should be doing what's right for your families, and um, no matter what that looks like, that's not up for others to have opinions or I, you know, ideas about. So, of course, if you're looking for support and resources, that's different than and getting advice. But if people are just giving you opinions, advice, things like that, that's not for them to have. That's not for you to take from them. Like, don't don't listen to that stop. Like it's in your own experience, and it's been so unique to have um knowing kind of the boundaries that maybe need to be set now around things that I once uh considered weaknesses or things like that, where now I can, like you said, maybe give myself more grace around these areas, um, sensitivities, things like that, not always take what maybe my parents said to me, like, oh, you're just too dramatic or too sensitive, you know, when I was little, things like that, um, to heart anymore, and recognize, yes, I'm much, much, much sensitive. And uh that's okay.

SPEAKER_03: 23:03

That's okay, right? Yeah, that's so that's who you are, and I think that's the thing. It's it's it's not only accepting who we are at within ourselves, but it's the ability to accept people at face value too, and not not project what we want them to be or have this sort of um uh sort of need for someone to be something that they're not. I think we need to recognize that when that person says that that's what they're actually saying. And I think that's that's a skill set that a lot of us probably don't pick up until we're much older in life. But I think if we can start like explaining those sort of types of actions to our children as they grow up, they hopefully won't have the same issues that we might have experienced. But you know, it's all part and parcel of living and experiencing life and working out how to sort of navigate those things. But if you have those little sort of flags or signposts or little instructions along the way, it makes life a little bit easier, but it's a challenge, it's always going to be a challenge.

SPEAKER_00: 24:24

Yeah, absolutely. Um do you have are your books on Amazon?

SPEAKER_03: 24:33

Where can people find your stuff? Yeah, so the gray between is the one I'm just showing you. Oh, thank you. There you go. I don't know if you can see that um that is available globally on Amazon. So um the I have an author's site, um, which is www.nadeen ellis.com, so n-a-d-in-e-e-l-l-i-s.com. So you can um learn more about myself and the actual gray between. Uh there's lots there's some poems on there from the book, there's sort of um more things about the story behind it on my website, and also I have a in um Instagram site as well, which is at Nadine Ellis Poetry, so that's all one word. So a lot of newer work is on my Instagram. Um, but yeah, so Amazon globally um is quite accessible as far as purchasing the book, or it can be purchased directly from my publisher, which is uh the Hill of Content publishing as well.

SPEAKER_00: 25:45

I got an extra E instead of an L. Okay, that looks right, maybe. Nadine.

SPEAKER_01: 25:54

No, yes, still poetry. Yeah, double L. Hang on. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 26:01

Let's make sure it's in there, but yeah, you'll have a funder. Nadine Ellis poetry. You got this. Let's not bring my dyslexia into this game.

SPEAKER_01: 26:13

Oh, put it into the chat.

SPEAKER_03: 26:15

Let me put it into the chat.

SPEAKER_00: 26:17

Oh great, I love it. And we'll definitely make sure to have it in the show notes so that everybody can go and and um this is gonna be coming out quite soon. So uh please definitely go and and support Nadine and follow her on uh her Instagram and go and get the poetry. Um what other types of things can we find on your website?

SPEAKER_03: 26:42

Okay, um, well, there's some yeah, the poems on there. I've got quite a few of my podcast interviews uh they're on there as well. Um so that I'm talking uh about m my life experiences, um, either as a writer or as a neurodivergent person or someone who's experienced um marriage breakdowns or motherhood, those sort of things. So that that's across the board there. Um also I think I've I've spoken about um bullying, being bullied um when I was young. So there's lots of interesting things to sort of listen to on that. Like I said, there's a lot of backstory uh about myself, and there are also some poems where I'm actually reading them as well. So it's a good type, go visit it.

SPEAKER_02: 27:35

You have to do that, I agree. Would you like me to read a poem? Yeah, oh would you? That would be so cool.

SPEAKER_03: 27:42

Please so this is called caustic comments. So this is from the book. Back when I wandered concrete corridors of green youth, I was stabbed in the butt with a protractor. Who does that? I asked myself even now. Mean girls grow to be mean women, I still tell myself about that episode so long ago. It was a lifetime past. Back then, my teacher, to my face, acid etched, you'll never amount to anything. At fourteen, dripping her acrid words, thinking, Why would Mrs. Ossini say that? I asked myself even now. My flesh still scarred with her pungent laser cuts and mordant attitudes, and all this sulfurous mud before I even knew what Neuro Spicy was, and is, but now I do. And once he called me a silver-tongued snake. But what did he mean I considered in shame? Only later I understood he was projecting that was when I couldn't do what he demanded, my belly already with child, replicating him and my autism. Looking back now, I comprehend my firstborn carries my spice defiance, and I understand one must wade the quagmire depth, weighted by tasks that grind us down, to emerge regenerated, phoenix shaped by caustic malevolence, soaring above.

SPEAKER_00: 29:30

Ah I have chills. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. And my pleasure. Wow, I feel speechless.

SPEAKER_03: 29:54

Um do you want one on motherhood? Oh, sure. Yeah, okay. This one's called solitary confinement. Faced with the outside, I choose the inness of folding calico and flannel. Watch with intrigue as minute death floats past my eyes, clouded in life, each speck of slough skin witness to countless touches or brush asides. Each tiny DNA robbed of breath, drowned among the soap suds, like children they will not become. And those children will not hold me dear, wrap their juicy flesh around my neck, that smell like the sun smacked against the towels, that flatten the breeze, or whisper orange or frangipani in my ear. Their breath, my breath. I fold the sweetness over and over into neat squares and place the toweling onto pine shelves, ready for the day that the children do not need my laundry.

SPEAKER_00: 31:05

Oh my gosh, these are so incredible. I love the way you write, I love the how I can just visualize all of it and feel all of it. So this is fantastic, and I appreciate that so much. Thank you. Oh, my personal. Thank you. Thanks for letting me write. Yes, oh my gosh.com. Please go and pick up the book. Um, watch for a new book that's coming, and uh also follow her on Instagram, Natine Ellis Poetry. Thank you so much for your time and for just uh being here with us and sharing not only your story and your, you know, I'd love to have you back on to, you know, maybe discuss just more like things that you experienced as a child and how uh those things, you know, now you know kind of are autistic, if you will, and and things like that. Because I think that that's such such eye-opening and um revelative experience and things for people to learn and to be able to draw from. So thank you. I am just honor your time and and blessed to have you. Thank you so much for being here. No, thank you, Sarah. Thank you very much. It was such a great conversation. So I look forward to staying in touch.