Episode 356-Accessibility Works When We Stop Treating Disability As Defect with Daniel Hodges

Most people say they support accessibility, but very few can explain what it actually means or why it keeps breaking down in real life. We’re joined by Daniel Hodges, a nonprofit leader and advocate with a law degree who was born blind, to get specific about where the barriers really come from and what “equity” looks like when you strip out bias and bad design.

We talk about Daniel’s childhood in rural America, where the focus stayed on future cures and risky procedures instead of practical skills like Braille, a white cane, and assistive technology. That led to a powerful reframing: disability is not automatically the problem. Daniel breaks down how much of the hardship people associate with blindness is truly intrinsic, and how much comes from societal barriers like inaccessible materials, missing accommodations, stigma, and the constant pressure to prove competence.

From there, we dig into what actually works. Daniel shares how small, honest conversations about disability etiquette and tools can transform community connection, and he introduces the Pieces of Me Foundation mission: education, innovative professional training, and resource connections that help dismantle misconceptions. He also explains the Access Opportunity Tour, a practical Zoom-based way for leaders to get real-time guidance on making their workplace, church, nonprofit, or website more accessible. Along the way, Daniel tells a gripping story about blind parenting, facing CPS scrutiny, and supporting a child through eye cancer treatment, plus the everyday tools he relies on, including iOS VoiceOver and mindset practices grounded in grace.

If you care about disability inclusion, universal design, and accessibility that’s more than a checkbox, hit play. Subscribe, share this with someone building community spaces, and leave a review with one accessibility change you want to see next.

Transcript

Welcome And Introductions

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hey, thanks for joining the SJ Child show today. I'm really excited about this conversation because I have been seeing this gentleman's name pop up in quite a few of my feeds. And so I'm really looking forward to talking to Daniel and to get to know him more. And so, listeners and viewers, please welcome Daniel Hodges with me. How are you doing today, Daniel?

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I'm doing all right. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Oh, I'm doing so good. Just, you know, the day has sometimes days get away from you, but I feel like I've really gotten stuff done today. Like my executive functioning skills are more on task than ever before today.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

I I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Oh, life. It can be tricky sometimes. Without further ado, please introduce yourself. Let us know a little bit more about you and what brought you here, and then we'll just get into this great discussion.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Absolutely. So, as you said, my name is Daniel Hodges. I'm joining you from East Texas, although I'm not native here. I'm native to all over the country. And I run a nonprofit with my cousin called Pieces of Me Foundation that we'll get into later in the conversation, I imagine. And we spell that P-E-A-C-E-S, and we'll probably get into that as well. I have a law degree,

Why Law School Still Matters

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I have a master's as well, and I'm also somebody who was born blind and with some other significant health challenges. And I view the entirety of all that as my opportunity to go out and change perceptions, help people find hope, and really try to completely transform the conversations we're having surrounding accessibility and inclusion. So I'm so happy to be here with you today.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Wow. I bravo. Bravo. That is just so fantastic. It's wonderful to meet you. And you know, just between me and you, I love attorneys. I'm not the only person in the world that could say that. I was a paralegal for 10 years. And there's just something about a great lawyer that just can, you know, is your friend, can get you out of the trenches. Oh heaven. No, I I learned so much in my law career. Um, if I could call it that, I think I can. My legal ex, you know, experiences. I really think it shaped who I am able to be today as far as like how I was able to understand being a writer or even, you know, just reading general legal things for my family.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

I I completely agree. And that's a question that often comes up because I haven't sat for the bar. And you know, that was due to a lot of reasons, primarily health and other things. People ask, you know, well, you know, don't you regret not sitting for the bar? And I said, no, that wasn't the entire point. The point was to learn how to advocate and to be able to understand things from that point of view, which I have. I feel like my nonprofit work, I feel like my writing, my speaking, all of those things and more have benefited from me graduating from law school. And you know, as it so happened, I felt called to start a nonprofit while I was in law school and to really work being a peacemaker and to bring people to the table on a larger level than simply litigating cases. So no regrets.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I love that. I really do. And I'm really grateful that you're bringing us this experience and this level of it feels like wisdom that you have been collecting throughout your experiences. And, you know, let us know. Let's talk a little bit about accessibility as a child and talk to us about what that was like as far as times have changed. What did that, you know, how does that feel for you now?

Childhood Without Braille Or Cane

SPEAKER_01 4:22

So growing up, because I had just a little bit of vision in my left eye, and I was in rural Ohio at the time. Nobody knew where to send me. You go to the doctor's office, and they'll say, Well, one of these days we'll have retinal transplants, or one of these days we'll have microchips. And the message, sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly, was always your potential is tied to you having this astonishing eye surgery. And you know, so there was never braille, there was never assistive technology that taught me non-visual skills, there was never a white cane, and that really shaped my self-concept growing up. Fortunately, when I was just shy of 18, I was introduced to a school for the blind in Idaho, and I started to gain those skills and started to see, oh, there is a world out there in which my potential is not tied to my vision, but there was a lot of transitions there. I mean, there was one professional along the way who told my parents, oh, all he'll ever be able to do is cane chairs. And there was an eye surgery that we pursued when I was 15 that was medically dubious, but it was a long shot. But we pursued it because again, we thought that that was the only path forward. And you know, what ended up happening there was I lost the little bit of reason I had in my right eye, and I got to experience what a what an eye rejecting an implant feels like, and it's not real fun. Yeah, so you know, there's a lot of things that have changed, but there are a lot of things that still haven't changed, too. There's still a push to quote unquote normalize kids or have them use mainstream techniques that may or may not fit with their characteristics that still happens today, where somebody with a strong disability background could say, look, you got a kid who's reading two or three words a minute using what little eyesight they have, they could be reading 60 or 100 words a minute using Braille. Come on. So that's where I think there's a lot of room for us to make a real impact fill.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

I agree. There are so many gaps that need to be bridged across. And I I won't even say filled because I don't even think that that's a possibility, but bridging those gaps at least and having these conversations where we talk about access, where we talk about what does access mean? You know, today what does that mean for you when you, you know, go into the world?

Access Means Removing Unfair Barriers

SPEAKER_00 7:32

What access do you need the world to have for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

To me, access is the ability to utilize my skills and talents or perform a given task without running into barriers that a quote unquote typical person would not run into. You know, how I how I bridge that for people is I say, look, I'm not asking for special treatment, I'm not asking for standards to be lower, I'm asking for a design change that lets more people do more things. I tell people, let me compete in an arena free of bias and barriers and may the best candidate win. That's to me, that's what equity looks like. That's and that's an extension of what access what access looks like to me.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Absolutely. And it couldn't be more general for everyone who needs it. It needs to be, you know, individualized, yet it also needs to be broad enough to fit a community that have, you know, within the same boundaries of needs and accommodations to be met. And the world was designed. I I don't know who we won't go there. But the new designers of the new world that we have got to make are going to be the voices of today, are going to be you and I and the people who we can bring in, hopefully, to make these you know design changes.

Stigma Versus The Real Challenges

SPEAKER_01 9:18

It's tricky. Absolutely, absolutely, and I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding that got us on this particular design tangent, which is people have been brought up to believe that the physical characteristics or mental characteristics that define quote-unquote disability are themselves the problem. And the example I use is most people drastically overestimate the complications that are intrinsic to vision loss, let's say for blindness, as opposed to systemic or structural or societal barriers. I say in my life, 30% of the barriers I face or the hardships I face with regard to blindness are actually intrinsic to vision loss, where the other 70 are traceable to access barriers, stigma, having to, you know, try twice as hard to prove that I can do something because people can't imagine doing something with their eyes closed. You know, that's often a pardon the pun, an eye-open experiencing experience for people, because they have been taught to believe that the ratio is reverse of that. And what does that do? Well, you start chasing cures instead of design changes because you overestimate the impact that chasing cures would have, and you underestimate the impact that making the web accessible or having proper signage would have on the world.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I I don't know the history of when they started introducing Braille or anything like that, unfortunately. Maybe I should I'll have to do some more research, but I th I find it so fascinating that, you know, as I started to learn more about vision than having some vision impaired guests on the show and really kind of like you said, opening my eyes to the lack of access. And just it it kind of like hurt my heart. Like, wait, I didn't know this. I didn't know that this was what was happening, like the people were really experiencing these types of limitations. And and I'm so grateful, like so appreciative and so grateful that you have been able to come and and explain these things to me. Because in my world and in my life, it's given me the opportunity to understand the need to build things in my life differently, to be more open in understanding access and inclusion, not only as you know, for an on an autistic individual, but really inclusive in societal community in general. And I mean, I just I just want to wrap my whole heart around it.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Well, that's awesome. And you know, I think as we as we work through issues that are so complex and dynamic as accessibility and inclusion are, it's important to give ourselves and each other grace because none of us has this all figured out. I know even running an accessibility-themed nonprofit for the last seven years, I'm still learning things. I'm still tinkering around the edges, trying to make sure that my work is as good as it can be, and educating myself on a number of different fronts. And I think one of the things that I try to do in my work and that we try to do through pieces of me is remind people that having a misunderstanding doesn't make you bad. It just means that we all have room to learn and grow together.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Absolutely. And, you know, I love to say a little bit of knowledge turns fear into understanding because sometimes you you have that confusion when you don't understand something and it's fearful to ask questions, maybe, or you know, and and so I think that it's really important when we find that when we bridge that informational gap, that can being be so just open for everyone to be able to have a better experience. So uh I'm

Curiosity Builds Respectful Connection

SPEAKER_00 13:54

really excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Me too. And you know, it's uh it's amazing what what that could do for basic connection, like you were saying. I was having a conversation with the local leadership at my church a couple weeks ago, and we came and we just sat down and had a 10-15-minute discussion about accessibility. And it was amazing, on one hand, that so many of the things I take for granted were just completely foreign to them, you know, even simple things like how do I use an iPhone and yes, you can send me an email, and you know, some of those things like that, or or proper etiquette as I'm walking through the halls, you know, it was amazing to see those light bulbs come on. But then the other thing I've noticed in the last couple weeks in church is those same people seem to be much more eager, much more comfortable, maybe is a better word, when it comes to walking up to me and shaking my hand and having a conversation for a minute. And I'm like, they never wanted to be not inclusive, they never wanted to be distant, they didn't know how to respectfully approach in a way to draw a connection, and sometimes the fear of being rude disconnects us and it trumps the fear of being distant. And I'd love to slip that and say, you know, not that I want people to be rude, but I want people to I want people to be curious, I want people to be vulnerable, and when we're vulnerable together, we connect.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

I love that. Absolutely, and connection is the best thing, and connection can be made on so many levels, and that is something that we are also learning about inaccessibility is the the connection. Let's, you know, say for example, the spellers of the world that are coming to the forefront of the community that have been unheard and you know for their entire lives and now are having this chance to tell a story. I just it's phenomenal. And these types of of accesses to each individual who who need are imperative, imperative from the get-go that you know our professionals and providers try to create things in in general for for everyone who needs them. So tricky.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yep.

Why Pieces Of Me Exists

SPEAKER_00 16:42

I think we're we're on a good tell tell me about pieces of me and you know where it started and like kind of the the heart behind it.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah, so we have a mission statement that asks us to do three things. We provide community education, we provide innovative professional training, and we provide connections to relevant resources, and all of it is designed to break the stigma surrounding disabilities of all kinds in a transformative manner. And to me, those those three buckets of activities, the education, the training, and the resources, they're all interlinked and they all create a synergy that really moves the conversation forward. And it started back in 2019. I was getting my butt kicked by life, not gonna lie. I was in, I was in between my first and second year of law school. I was looking at having a foot surgery, I was in the midst of a profound mental health crisis, and I I was really seeking answers, and it so happened I went out to visit my cousin in Arizona, and we got to talking about what I had been through. We thought got to talking about her invisible disability as well as her daughter's unexpected limb differences she was born with. And I said, Christy, there's there's common, there's commonality here. There are threads that bind each of these experiences that are rooted in stigma, that are rooted in misconceptions. And I'm not gonna try to take this on my own, certainly not while I'm in law school, but I'll do it if you will. And somehow she's like, Yeah, let's do it. It was it was always meant to be, it's always been meant to be an organization that connects people together in the cause of bringing some of these issues to light and dismantling some of these misconceptions together. So it transcends all kinds of disabilities and it's intentionally and thoughtfully welcoming to people without disabilities as well, because we need them as part of the conversation. We need business owners, we need medical professionals, we need teachers, social workers, lawyers, whoever. We need people who are who are out there not knowing where to turn to be part of us, helping you know, helping us shape what accessibility looks like in the future. The initial spelling of the name pieces, it was meant to signify that we are helping people understand that they're not broken and that there is no missing piece P E I C E as you know, as part of having this ability. But peace P E A-C E comes at least in part from accepting who we are and embracing who we are and asking, okay, what's next? And then if four years after that, 2023, while you know, we're we're dealing with the world being on fire in a number of sorts in a number of ways, I was listening to a church talk about why we needed to be peacemakers in our own in our own realms of influence. And I was able to take that back to my team, who represents a number of different religious and political philosophies. We're we're not monolithic in any sense. And I said, look, I'm I we're not gonna even talk about the theology of this, but just the practicality of we need to be peacemakers in this realm. As a leader, I feel this is what I'm called to do, and fortunately, my team got behind it. And so we really focused in on meeting people where they are, calling them in rather than calling them out, and saying, if you're willing to sit down with us and have a vulnerable, raw, real conversation with us, I'm not gonna worry about if something comes out indelicate or sideways, or if you ask the wrong question. There's not only grace for here, I will mentally and psychologically and spiritually hold this space so that we can learn and grow together, and so that by the time you, dear ally, walk away, you're thinking about accessibility differently. That's that's the mission.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I love that. That's wonderful. Do you have events where you're at? Do you do things online? Where do you find kind of find and prefer your the the missions experiences?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Absolutely. So we have everything from a Facebook group where we have these discussions and we try to facilitate peer to peer connections because there's nothing quite like learning from somebody else who's Where you are, we do webinars, and you know, you've seen some of the content I share, I share online. But the real power is when you sit down in a vulnerable, safe place and you say, Look, I want to learn from your perspective what challenges you're facing, and I want to help you solve them so that you can be more accessible

The Access Opportunity Tour Pilot

SPEAKER_01 22:26

and inclusive in your world. And that's why we designed something called the Access Opportunity Tour. And we just put the page and the sign-up form on our website. We are we're currently running a pilot program where if somebody signs up, I'm donating an hour of my time and expertise to sit on Zoom and help leaders solve real problems in real time. If you're a business owner or you need a house of worship, or a you know, a nonprofit or a social club, whatever the case may be, medical professional, teacher, whatever, if you're like, I want to know how to do something on a higher level, I would love to have that conversation. And it's all based on a Stephen Covey quote that says, seek first to understand, then to be understood. So my role as an advocate is to learn what you are facing, what have you tried, what worked, what didn't work. I want to know all of that before I even think about offering a recommendation because I want to know that whatever I recommend is going to be replicable, sustainable, and deeply relevant to you.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

That's so thoughtful. And I just put up the website and the access opportunity tour information. What a beautiful community that you are building. And the truth is that oftentimes families feel so isolated and so alone. And when they're able to find, you know, others and especially mentors, it can be life-changing, absolutely life-sustaining for others.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

When our daughter, who just turned 18, when she was born, we were living in Denver,

Blind Parenting, Bias, And CPS

SPEAKER_01 24:36

and we had thought that we had found a hospital that would learn with us as far as what it takes to be a successful blind parent. We had had the conversation. We'd actually, you know, left one hospital during her pregnancy because we felt unsafe. And we went to another one where we thought we were safe, only to have the medical staff turn on us right after our daughter was born. And my ex-wife had changed all the diapers successfully, she had nursed successfully. Every box had been checked, every box had been checked. And yet, by the time we got home, CPS had already beat us to our door and left a note on our door saying, you know, there's been a CPS referral, we need to do an investigation, we'll be back. In the midst of all of this, we knew that because of the cancer that my ex-wife had as a baby, that our daughter, any of our kids, would have a 50-50 shot at having the same eye cancer. And as it turned out, she did. So we ended up having to convince a CPS worker who fortunately was much more open-minded that we were capable parents while we started cancer treatment for our baby, as parents who were in our you know, in our early 20s, and I was working full-time graveyard at the time. We were we were up against it. And at that time, not only did we not have any other mentors that were that were you know able to mentor us through those particular struggles, we actually had a good chunk of our community who when we needed support, when we needed that shorter, they heard kids with cancer and they checked out. And so we've been there. You know, fortunately, I have to say, our daughter had a tremendous recovery from the cancer. She exceeded all of the expectations. And I'll put it putting you this way, you know, it was a cancer of the eyes. Most kids with this condition lose at least one eye. She didn't.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Oh, congratulations! Publicly congratulating her.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

So so so, yeah, it's that's all to say this all came from this organ, you know, this organization, this work comes from a place of trying to build what we wish we would have had.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Yeah, exactly. And it's too bad that we have to go around asking now, and it couldn't have been just something normal then that could have been the starting point. But that's what we have to do now. We have to use this as our starting point, and we'll make it right moving forward. Because right is when you know do better, do better, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Whatever it is, like yeah, I I so I view this as I view this as my opportunity to turn my trauma into hope, and to turn my pain into purpose. And I think back to moments where we had the fight for custody, where we had to deal with you know barriers that shouldn't have been there, when I've been denied jobs that I was qualified for, or had to compete in a classroom where I didn't have the same materials as everybody else. I I view what I do now as part of my personal forgiveness journey. And I view it as part of my path to say, okay, I'm able to take these experiences, take my gifts and talents, and use them toward trying to make this world a better place and trying to shine some light and bring people into this conversation because I do believe that our our best days are ahead of us with regard to the kind of inclusion, the kind of design, the kind of culture that we can build together.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Absolutely. I love that. You know, before we go, I would really love maybe my

Tools, Mindset, And Mental Health

SPEAKER_00 29:30

listeners to have a real tangible idea of what accessibility tools do you have now that you use every day.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

So I use for blindness, I use an app called or a piece of software called VoiceOver that is native to every iOS device. It reads text on a website or an email or a text or whatever allowed to me. And on a on a nailer's downmost chronic pain front, I use some compressing stuff. I use you know, ace wraps, those sorts of things for joint stabilization. And I know things you know change over time, but um I'd say probably the biggest thing is between the years. I try to remember that mindset and remembering that you know that this is a growth journey, and that those barriers can be resolved. You know, that's been the biggest thing I have to really remember as a tool.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Yeah, absolutely. You have a great attitude, and I think that you know the biggest part, the hardest part really of some people's challenges is their own mindset and their own, you know, being able to kind of get themselves out of the the funk and back into the flow.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Yeah, and and to be to be to be clear, I deal with that sometimes too. I deal with pretty severe depression sometimes. I've I've lived with a diagnosed anxiety disorder for most of my life, and so it's not always easy, and it's not even always evident in my life. But at the same time, being able to allow myself grace and say, I don't have to be smiling every day, I don't have to be over the moon with my circumstances every day. There are moments where I'm allowed to say, waking up and I can't move my hand because it hurts, that sucks. There are moments where I'm allowed to say that. It's a matter of do I stay there? It's a matter of do I allow myself to linger there long enough for it to start becoming counterproductive? And one of the things I a therapist told me years ago that I lean on is service, doing service in a way that is meaningful and is utilizing our unique gifts and talents is a great way to put our perspective back in order.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Absolutely. Wise words, and I it's been so great to get to know you.

Where To Follow And Support

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Where can people find you? Are you on social pieces of me on social media, things like that? Give us all the download.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Absolutely. So I'll make sure you have the all of the social links in the in the show notes, LinkedIn. I am Daniel Hodges, JD Mha. You can look for me in my suit and my cowboy hat. And that's probably the best way to connect with me individually. Although, if you drop a message through the website, I will see that as well. And yeah, one thing I'll tell people a a like or a follow on social, those add up. So you don't have to have a disability to be part of this. You don't have to even be up to date on what it even means to have a disability to be part of that. We we will meet you where you where you are. We want to meet you where you are. And yeah, a like or a follow can do an amazing amount of good as we add them up and as we bring people into this growing community.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

So please go follow, please go and share this information and share this podcast. And I just want to welcome you back on anytime. If you have any events or you know, things that that you'd like to promote, please share. I am the queen of referrals.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

So I'd love to love to do that. It was so great to get to know you, Daniel. I appreciate your time. And I just completely honor your situation, your vulnerability. And just thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Thank you for having me. It's been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah, I look forward to staying in touch.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Likewise.